Proxmox Backup Server (beta)

[t.lamprecht]

Is "Datacenter Manager" will include management of pmg also?

Cannot comment on that yet. Anyway we're here in the beta thread for Proxmox Backup server not the Manager

 

[patefoniq]

Cannot comment on that yet. Anyway we're here in the beta thread for Proxmox Backup server not the Manager

Ok. Fair enough

 

[tom]

Is "Datacenter Manager" will include management of pmg also?

This thread is about Proxmox Backup Server beta, please do not add other topics.

 

[iprigger]

Hi All,

I have one question regarding PBS... can you give us any (rough) estimate on what the pricing will be / how the licensing will be implemented? Will it be a per-backup-server / per-client pricing?

And how much will each server / client cost?

Since we do have quite a lot of Proxmox VE Customers I'd like to do some planning budget-wise...

Thanks!

Tobias

 

[tom]

per-backup-server / per-client pricing?

I assume a subscription for each Proxmox Backup Server. License is aGPL v3.

And how much will each server / client cost?

subscription pricing will be available with the first stable release and yes, a very interesting question.

 

[guletz]

- add the possibility to restore a single file from the client

I do agree that will be very usefull, but from security perspective this is not OK. From my knowldge, a good bukup system(security perspective) must complay with this rules:

-any backup task is intitiated only from backup host(so in case of security compromise of the client, the client himself can not access/delete/restore any bakup file/image)
-any restore task is also initiated only from backup host

Good luck /Bafta!

 

[msproact]

Awesome stuff! Will definitely look into it. Thank you for this!

 

[fortechitsolutions]

Wow! This is a big deal / great news! Just to see if I understand correctly the deployment scenario,

-- dedicated host runs this Backup Server. Expected use case might be a dedicated server (physical hardware) which has lots of / suitable local storage. Optionally it sounds like network storage is supported (NFS, etc) but is inherently maybe less-optimal than 'box with tons of disk space'.
-- I'm guessing (not sure?) you don't support linux MD/SW Raid out of the box, (optionally can we 'roll our own' if desired by doing manual install of Debian SW raid box / then add repo and install "proxmox backup" packages - kind of like the current "DIY If you really want to" method for getting Proxmox installed on custom Debian box (ie, with SW raid and LVM setup suitably). (?)
-- ie, maybe by default your 'default install target' is a physical server which has a hardware raid controller supported by Debian. (ie, kind of same concept as Proxmox installer Appliance ISO install model). Or possibly? installer will do ZFS "Mirror and Software-Raid" options from appliance installer if you wish to do that kind of thing (?). But ZFS is not mandatory part of the stack from the sound of it / if it is present as an option (?)
-- from the look of things, it is intended as an 'appliance installer' - boot the ISO, install to the bare metal, configure is basic-minimal at install time, once you have hostname, IP, user-pass info set, then you do ~the rest of it via web admin for the proxmox backup server host. And then get it 'integrated' to your proxmox host(s) for backup service provider via 'current proxmox web admin'.

Sounds amazing to have support for dedup backups, replicate to remote, etc. Huzzah!

Thanks!

Tim

 

[msproact]

From installation to first backup in less than 30 minutes. Awesome! Using on same host with LUKS encrypted USB disk. (No critical production setup.)

Only thing I did not found in the documentation was to use "/datastore/usb" as an ACL, but guessed it. Currently running backup of all important VMs on that Proxmox VE host.

I am impressed!

 

[msproact]

Some little nitpicks:

- Datastore / Content view does not automatically update.
- Datastore / Statistics: Graphs for transfer rate and IOPS are empty, the one for storage usage shows data

About one and a half minute per VM so far, nice . So far just templates for Linux trainings though.

 

[msproact]

Another little thing. It seems to hold a lock after Backup job is completed according to job progress output on Proxmox VE:

[…]/mnt# lsof /mnt/backup COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME proxmox-b 6497 backup 14u REG 0,58 0 269 /mnt/backup/pbs/.lock

Not really an issue in the usual case, but noticed as I wanted to lock the disk with udisksctl again.

Not reporting any bugs / improvement requests so far, unless you ask me to.

 

[t.lamprecht]

Datastore / Content view does not automatically update.

That's by design, it produces some IO, so we want to play safe and avoid doing it automatically for now.

Datastore / Statistics: Graphs for transfer rate and IOPS are empty, the one for storage usage shows data

Are you using ZFS? If so, yes that's for now "expected", it's a bit harder to get sane IOPS stats for ZFS than for other, mainlined, filesystems.

 

[patefoniq]

Hey guys,

you've got a typo error in your documentation:

https://pbs.proxmox.com/docs/administration-guide.html#backup-client-usage



And in my opinion, the best practice will be using ssh keys for connecting to the pbs server from the client. I just tested that and it works like a charm.

PBS is like the light speed daemon, seriously. 2 minutes for copying data between 2 laptops with machines in VirtualBox on a typical HDD (1st with the Debian client and the 2nd one is the PBS)? Amazing.

 

[t.lamprecht]

you've got a typo error in your documentation:

https://pbs.proxmox.com/docs/administration-guide.html#backup-client-usage

Much thanks for reporting, fixed in git: https://git.proxmox.com/?p=proxmox-...ff;h=78ee20d72d44e36b2dea624377b066e54ca2f355

And in my opinion, the best practice will be using ssh keys for connecting to the pbs server from the client. I just tested that and it works like a charm.

How do you mean that? The Proxmox Backup Server client doesn't use SSH anywhere. Or do you mean you tunnel the client <-> server connection through an SSH tunnel?

 

[flames]

-any backup task is intitiated only from backup host(so in case of security compromise of the client, the client himself can not access/delete/restore any bakup file/image)
-any restore task is also initiated only from backup host

^this
backup host is in our case even behind a separate firewall, onion network architecture. backup host is in the deepest safest core, like panic room, so nothing can access it directly. backup server pulls only. bad times crypto ransomware lurking everywhere

 

[flames]

can block based backups be mounted through fuse or nbd like filebased archives?
# pxar mount archive.pxar /mnt

 

[iprigger]

I assume a subscription for each Proxmox Backup Server. License is aGPL v3.



subscription pricing will be available with the first stable release and yes, a very interesting question.

... if you find this question „interesting“ I fear we‘re in for a bit of a surprise here...

I *know* what people charge for virtualization or backup (or both). And for now, Proxmox has been *very* fair.

I don‘t expect wonders - but would love to be able to sell this to smaller customers, too...

let‘s see!

Tobias

 

[psionic]

No, this would make things crowded and Proxmox Backup Server was explicitly made such that it can be used stand alone, possible even without Proxmox VE - which is especially nice for offsite remotes and for possible future integrations into other systems. I mean it really doesn't costs much to open a separate browser tab, that's about as much work than it would be navigate a Datacenter PBS panel.. It just allows more flexibility this way.

Note that there's a "datacenter manager" on the roadmap, there it would make sense to be able to add multiple PVE nodes/cluster and multiple PBS nodes in a central view, as this can then be optimized to be a UI for central access to all Proxmox infrastructure.

If I plan on continuing to use my local NFS storage array to store all my server backups, do you think it makes sense to run the backup server on one of my Proxmox server nodes to reduce local network traffic? I haven't read all the documentation yet, but in my setup would the server just be a controller for the client side apps and none of the backup data would actually flow through the backup server?

 

[iprigger]

If I plan on continuing to use my local NFS storage array to store all my server backups, do you think it makes sense to run the backup server on one of my Proxmox server nodes to reduce local network traffic? I haven't read all the documentation yet, but in my setup would the server just be a controller for the client side apps and none of the backup data would actually flow through the backup server?

I currently have a vm set up with pbs - it‘s not so much about traffic, it‘s more about convenience.

once the server is out of beta status I will most probably add some dedicated server to run pbs.

one question I still have is how to backup the pbs configuration in order to access my backups in case the server breaks...

tobias

 

[iprigger]

Hi

-- I'm guessing (not sure?) you don't support linux MD/SW Raid out of the box, (optionally can we 'roll our own' if desired by doing manual install of Debian SW raid box / then add repo and install "proxmox backup" packages - kind of like the current "DIY If you really want to" method for getting Proxmox installed on custom Debian box (ie, with SW raid and LVM setup suitably). (?)

You can install PBS on a standard debian system with custom storage layout. If you tweak enoug you might even be able to run it on something like a synology or qnap storage...

don’t ask me about supporting the latter - for tests: yes. For production: nope.

Tobias