Proxmox Offline Mirror released!

[GHvM]

you can filter by architecture, "section" (part of the package metadata) and package name.

There is no mention of a way to filter out the X11 related packages, there is no division along that line, as far as any documentation I have found is concerned.

well, all Proxmox software is Debian based. you might be able to get them to run on other distros as well, but it's not something that is officially supported.

And Ubuntu is Debian based, it uses the same package manager (even if it is with different repo's, because Ubuntu has way longer support) so specifically with something that is build on that, I would expect it would work.
Besides, there is an official explanation from Proxmox, which does imply compatibility, but that is precisely the one that is incorrect and does not work.

 

[GHvM]

Hi!

Is there any difference using POM instead of "apt-mirror" ?

At least the repositories, and as far as I got, the location of the mirror is fixed with apt-mirror.

But you might be able to get the right repo's through apt-mirror.
I have not tried yet, but if I have more use for the POM, or specifically want more than just a Proxmox mirror (like for Ubuntu), I will test this and report the results.

Please let me know if you have tried before I have.

 

[t.lamprecht]

There is no mention of a way to filter out the X11 related packages, there is no division along that line, as far as any documentation I have found is concerned.

There's a x11 section, which e.g., the x11-apps package is listed as (check apt show x11-apps).
Or got a few examples for what packages you actually mean?

because Ubuntu has way longer support

FYI There's a Debian LTS project provides 5 years of support, and the Extended LTS project can extend it to up to 10 years, and that Debian provides seamless upgrades between major releases, making such LTS releases somewhat obsolete anyway.

And Ubuntu is Debian based, it uses the same package manager (even if it is with different repo's, because Ubuntu has way longer support) so specifically with something that is build on that, I would expect it would work.

The package manager has not really any say it what software runs and what not, it's just there for dependency resolution and metadata, it cannot magically create binary compatibility between different distros, or even different releases from the same distro.
Each distro release, be it from Debian or from Ubuntu is only guaranteed to be compatible with software that targets it, ideally build for exactly that release, with the libc version being the major factor most of the time.
I.e., you won't be able to use most .deb packages files from a modern Ubuntu 23.10 directly on a say, Ubuntu 22.04, even if they both use the same package manager.

Besides, there is an official explanation from Proxmox, which does imply compatibility, but that is precisely the one that is incorrect and does not work.

Why should a non-existing explanation or statement imply compatibility? By that logic POM would be also compatible with macOS and Windows DOS, we never state the contrary after all?

Our official builds target Debian, with the newest series targetting Debian Bookworm. If you got an Ubuntu that has the same libraries in compatible SO versions available it will run, just like it would on Fedora or ArchLinux in such a case if libraries are installed and compatible – sure the latter two might need manually extracting the .deb file as yes, their native package manager uses a different format, but that's about it.

 

[GHvM]

There's a x11 section, which e.g., the x11-apps package is listed as (check apt show x11-apps).
Or got a few examples for what packages you actually mean?

I have not found a distinct division like you say there is.
Unfortunately I can not check anything right now, but as far as the documentation that is provided it does not work like that.

FYI There's a Debian LTS project provides 5 years of support, and the Extended LTS project can extend it to up to 10 years, and that Debian provides seamless upgrades between major releases, making such LTS releases somewhat obsolete anyway.

Debian may have the LTS version now, but it didn't when it mattered, and now the way things are setup by default is outdated.

As best practice, it is best to reevaluate a system's install (at least) every five years anyway, but the standard lifetime back then was not enough to be economically and maintenance-wise feasible.
The times have changed, and in all that time, I have seen Debian change the wrong way around and missing all the points that matter to me.

The package manager has not really any say it what software runs and what not, it's just there for dependency resolution and metadata, it cannot magically create binary compatibility between different distros, or even releases from the same distro.
Each distro release, be it from Debian or from Ubuntu is only guaranteed to be compatible with software that targets it, ideally build for exactly that release, with the libc version being the major factor most of the time.
I.e., you won't be able to use most .deb packages files from a modern Ubuntu 23.10 directly on a say, Ubuntu 22.04, even if they both use the same package manager.

I am not talking about different versions of the same distro, I am talking about different flavours of the same version.
It might be that what's necessary for Proxmox has a different version id between Debian and Ubuntu, but that should not be a problem itself (if it is, someone is not doing the job they have taken on).

Why should a non-existing explanation or statement imply compatibility? By that POM would be also compatible with macOS and Windows DOS, we never state the contrary after all?

The implication is not even subtle: it is stated literally in https://pom.proxmox.com/proxmox-offline-mirror.pdf that it should work in Ubuntu.
I see no mention of macOS or Windows/DOS in the same context.

Our official builds target Debian, with the newest series targetting Debian Bookworm. If you got an Ubuntu that has the same libraries in compatible SO versions available it will run, just like it would on Fedora or ArchLinux in such a case if libraries are installed and compatible – sure the latter two might need manually extracting the .deb file as yes, their native package manager uses a different format, but that's about it.

As far as I have seen, Bookworm is not supported yet with POM, but it might have been changed in the last week or so.
I have not checked every single library, but as far as I could determine, it should have worked, but it didn't.

It seems you are missing most of my points about it, and interpret my objections exactly the wrong way.
For me this matter is closed, because there is no solution besides the Debian VM I have already setup and used.

 

[t.lamprecht]

I have not found a distinct division like you say there is.

I literally quoted an example and showed you how you can find out about which section a package is, which you can use for filtering, as Fabian mentioned.

but as far as the documentation that is provided it does not work like that.

Which documentation? What did you actually try? If you start posting specifics, people might be actually able to help you...

Debian may have the LTS version now, but it didn't when it mattered, and now the way things are setup by default is outdated.

Even the linked wiki page mentions that there was an LTS for Debian Squeeze, which was released in 2011, over a decade ago.
There's no Ubuntu release from back then that's still supported, so it definitively had one when you setup the last (still supported) Ubuntu release..

I am talking about different flavours of the same version.

What different flavors? Debian and Ubuntu are not just two different flavors, but rather two completely separate projects, that are having their own ABI versions and specialities. Compatibility for executables between Debian and Ubuntu might be only slightly better than between any random other Linux distro..

It might be that what's necessary for Proxmox has a different version id between Debian and Ubuntu, but that should not be a problem itself (if it is, someone is not doing the job they have taken on).

What? So please tell me how you magically keep up binary-ABI/soname compat between those two?

Some builds of POM indeed work on some Ubuntu versions, as long as the libraries of that Ubuntu release are neither to old nor to new, thus "should" work. But yeah, as there seems that some users do not know that Debian and Ubuntu are two different projects with their own decisions how to do things, impacting compat similar as between other, totally unrelated, distros, it may indeed be good to add some more context there.

As far as I have seen, Bookworm is not supported yet with POM, but it might have been changed in the last week or so.

There sure is, and that since over two months (i.e., before our final Bookworm based release even happened) as you can just check from the package changelog hosted on our repos:

rust-proxmox-offline-mirror (0.6.1) bookworm; urgency=medium

  * add support for bookworm enterprise ceph repo

  * add bookworm to the list of releases for easier set up

 -- Proxmox Support Team <support@proxmox.com>  Fri, 16 Jun 2023 09:29:40 +0200

-- http://download.proxmox.com/debian/...-amd64/proxmox-offline-mirror_0.6.1.changelog