Details about the new pve-no-subscripton repository

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RRJ

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Apr 14, 2010
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yeah... a bit more respect. Everyone who is bothered in any way by this message can easily track it down and disable it. and it is not single way to do it, there are many. I think we are able even to compile pve-manager without this function. It does not mean we have to create step-by-steps in proxmox forums and it does not mean we are über-experienced programmers. One should be able just to read the code to "fix" this.
PS
it will return after pve-manager update.
 

nopenopenope

New Member
Aug 22, 2013
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Complain and edit all you want but don't post BS like that on their own forum. Its really disrespectful towards the developers in my opinion.
I think you've missed the point, but it's OK, I don't expect you to understand.
 

nopenopenope

New Member
Aug 22, 2013
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yeah... a bit more respect. Everyone who is bothered in any way by this message can easily track it down and disable it. and it is not single way to do it, there are many. I think we are able even to compile pve-manager without this function. It does not mean we have to create step-by-steps in proxmox forums and it does not mean we are über-experienced programmers. One should be able just to read the code to "fix" this.
PS
it will return after pve-manager update.
This was a matter of principle. What's the saddest thing: that they chose to be among the first people to put a nag screen on open source software, that they didn't even bother to make an appeal to the users and that they're hiding behind "oh, the money is for the technical support" while asking for money for the binaries OR that I've shown how simple it is to remove that nag screen by posting on their forum?

Honestly, if putting nag screens on open source GPL and AGPL licensed software is the only way for you to make money, you have a serious problem. It pissed me off to the point that I will never ever donate anything, nor pay for any of their subscriptions. Does that help them? Does it help you? Does it help the community in any way?

I'd be willing to give them money if this "pay us for tech support" bs with binaries and nag screens goes away.

edit: Also, what reason would there be for me to contribute in any way to Proxmox VE's development by fixing some of the issues I've run into? It's not like the "free version" is in any way free, it keeps showing a NAG SCREEN EVERY SINGLE TIME you use it. Open source software with nag screens isn't making me trust the developers.
 
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nopenopenope

New Member
Aug 22, 2013
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You do not contribute anything anyways, so that is not really a big lost.
That's healthy! Everyone who's going to give you money should read this message.

edit: You missed the whole part about me being willing to donate if you get rid of the nag screen. Either way, I wish you good luck with your "open source with nag screens".
 
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riptide_wave

Member
Mar 21, 2013
73
2
8
Minnesota, USA
Personally, now that I understand the whole repo setup, this change really is not that big of deal. Sure the nag screen is a little annoying, but its a single little popup. Its really not too bad. (Granted, I wish it was a little less often. Maybe once every 24 hours, or once per week would seem better IMO).

As for the people who are at arms over this, why? Proxmox needs to make money somehow, and if a popup and cheaper paid plans are the way they want to go, so be it.

Maybe proxmox should have a "donation" package, so if you donate X amount, you can enter a code that just disables the popup...
 

dietmar

Proxmox Staff Member
Staff member
Apr 28, 2005
16,503
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Austria
www.proxmox.com
edit: You missed the whole part about me being willing to donate if you get rid of the nag screen. Either way, I wish you good luck with your "open source with nag screens".
Just donate 49 Euros by buying the community subscription, and the nag screen will vanish.
 

nopenopenope

New Member
Aug 22, 2013
22
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Just donate 49 Euros by buying the community subscription, and the nag screen will vanish.
I'd have to pay 100 euros per year because it's a 2 socket system and I'd have to pay again next year to keep the subscription going. Furthermore, that's not really a donation, it's about buying something. Normally, it should be possible for me to donate and use open source software. Since I have 4 of these, I'd have to pay 400 euros. I'm not a company and I got these servers to cut down on the costs of the VPSes I am currently paying for, so that's a bit too much for an individual.

How about starting a fund raising campaign via donations and removing the nag screen from the community version of Proxmox VE? You can set a goal like 50000-100000 euros and let people donate. Make it clear that it's about keeping open source software open and letting users who don't really need "enterprise" support use Proxmox VE without subscriptions. I refrain from paying and using any kind of software which demands subscriptions, so I'm not getting any subscription based software. I think people would actually donate if they're clearly told this is needed. I think a lot of people would donate to keep the project going and to keep it free.
 
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giner

Member
Oct 14, 2009
239
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Dear nopenopenope,

I would like to reply from a customer side.

I also open source lover and donater. I would also be happy to live in the "gift economy" wolrd when we take all software for free and pay (donate) as much as we want or can. And we will live in such a world but this change will take a lot of time and efforts.

As "gift economy" doesn't work yet I do my best to motivate company I work for to pay for Open Source. Company still love big poprietary VMware, I try to install Proxmox VE instead of VMware and motivate my colleagues to do the same whenever I can. And my plan worked and brought some results! Month ago or so we started another project that is internally supported by higher IT bosses and they agreed to use Proxmox VE in this case. As this is going to be an important production system it was easy to motivate them to buy a subscription. Purchasing department is currently discovering how can we made this purchase in a propriate way (I'm from Russia and our law is quite complicated). This is a small installation (two servers with one cpu socket in each) but this is an important step for Proxmox VE in our company because if we success they will install the same system in Germany and then in other subsidiaries.

Proxmox VE is one of the best open source projects I have ever seen. It is fully open source and is developed very actively and professionally. Last update surprised me a lot at the first, because I started to think that I don't have updates anymore for my five "unproven by higher IT bosses" Proxmox VE clusters. But I found in the maillists and than in this thread that pve was renamed to pve-no-subscription, so no worries are necessary and we can trust the great Proxmox team. They "want to eat" and of cause I understand this as long as we have sources, we can use it freely and we can pay for support and futher developing.

I would only like to say thank you to the Proxmox Team for the great job they do.

Best regards,
Stanislav
 
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nopenopenope

New Member
Aug 22, 2013
22
0
1
Dear nopenopenope,

I would like to reply from a customer side.

I also open source lover and donater. I would also be happy to live in the "gift economy" when we take all software for free and pay (donate) as much as we want or can. And we would live in such a world but this change will take a lot of time and efforts.

As "gift economy" doesn't work yet I do my best to motivate company I work for to pay for Open Source. Company still love big poprietary VMware, I try to install Proxmox VE instead of VMware and motivate my colleagues to do the same whenever I can. And may plan worked and brought some results! Month ago or so we started another project that is internally supported by higher IT bosses and they agreed to use Proxmox VE in this case. As this is going to be an important production system it was easy to motivate them to buy a subscription. Purchasing department is currently discovering how can we made this purchase in a propriate way (I'm from Russia and our law is quite complicated). This is a small installation (two servers with one cpu socket in each) but this is an important step for Proxmox VE in our company because if we success they will install the same system in Germany and then in other subsidiaries.

Proxmox VE is one of the best open source projects I have ever seen. It is fully open source and is developed very actively and professionally. Last update surprised me a lot at the first, because I started to think that I don't have updates anymore for my five "unproven by higher IT bosses" Proxmox VE clusters. But than I found in the maillists and than in this thread that pve was renamed to pve-no-subscription, so no worries are necessary and we can trust the great Proxmox team. They "want to eat" and of cause I understand this as long as we have sources, we can use it freely and we can pay for support and futher developing.

I would only like to say thank you to the Proxmox Team for the great job they do.

Best regards,
Stanislav
I understand and I am well aware of all this. I've developed open source and I haven't been given much in exchange for it, the most I've received in exchange for making 100% open and free software was "thanks", nothing more. I've taken care to donate to software projects I've been using and I do that every time, especially when I find smaller projects and projects which need money to survive. However, I never buy subscriptions for software and I won't buy software to remove a nag screen temporarily.

I wish you good luck and good luck with your projects.
 

dietmar

Proxmox Staff Member
Staff member
Apr 28, 2005
16,503
320
83
Austria
www.proxmox.com
I'd have to pay 100 euros per year because it's a 2 socket system and I'd have to pay again next year to keep the subscription going. Furthermore, that's not really a donation, it's about buying something. Normally, it should be possible for me to donate and use open source software. Since I have 4 of these, I'd have to pay 400 euros. I'm not a company and I got these servers to cut down on the costs of the VPSes I am currently paying for, so that's a bit too much for an individual.
Yes. and if you have 1000 the amount would be 50000 - really strange kind of argumentation.

How about starting a fund raising campaign via donations and removing the nag screen from the community version of Proxmox VE?
Just wanted to note that is a common pattern: You are not willing to donate anything, and you suggest that other people donate for you.
 

oakleeman

New Member
Nov 28, 2006
19
1
3
You do not contribute anything anyways, so that is not really a big lost.
Dietmar,

I realize that emotions are running pretty high right now but you might want to remember that as an employee of Proxmox you represent them in everything you say and do. And as we seem to like to say in the US, "Everything you say can and will be used against you...." so these words may come back to haunt you. Any potential customers who might be reading this thread could be turned away by seeing that a member of the Proxmox team can display such a negative attitude publicly.

Not a personal attack, just some unsolicited advice from someone who is considering becoming a MSP customer & possibly a reseller. I couldn't figure out how to send this in a private message so please delete this post after you've read it.
 

RRJ

Member
Apr 14, 2010
245
0
16
Estonia, Tallinn
nopenopenope
Come on. Don't pay nor buy. Just install proxmox and remove that window from login if you don't like it - no one can prohibit you doing this. The product by itself is great and still free (including free of charge). All of us understood already, that you never pay for binaries and vanished pop-ups.
here an idea:
1. install proxmox
2. remove the pop-up
3. get community account if you really have a possibility to support as you write here.
See the difference? You will not pay for vanished pop-up, as there won't be any when you will pay! (as you remove it by yourself before paying).
 

giner

Member
Oct 14, 2009
239
0
16
36
Tokyo
Dietmar,

I realize that emotions are running pretty high right now but you might want to remember that as an employee of Proxmox you represent them in everything you say and do. And as we seem to like to say in the US, "Everything you say can and will be used against you...." so these words may come back to haunt you. Any potential customers who might be reading this thread could be turned away by seeing that a member of the Proxmox team can display such a negative attitude publicly.

Not a personal attack, just some unsolicited advice from someone who is considering becoming a MSP customer & possibly a reseller. I couldn't figure out how to send this in a private message so please delete this post after you've read it.
I would also add that "spread a word" is also important. Let's say 5% (that's just an example, I don't know the real numbers) buy support subscription. 5% from 1000 is 50, however from 10 000 it is 500...
 

nopenopenope

New Member
Aug 22, 2013
22
0
1
Yes. and if you have 1000 the amount would be 50000 - really strange kind of argumentation.



Just wanted to note that is a common pattern: You are not willing to donate anything, and you suggest that other people donate for you.
I am willing to donate ONLY if the nag screen goes away. Why would I donate knowing I will still get the nag screen? People who run that many systems should really have a support contract, not just a subscription.
 

Shazan

New Member
Oct 24, 2012
18
0
1
I couldn't upgrade my servers to 3.1 yet, so I am not sure what you're talking about.
May I see a screenshot of this message? How often does it appear? Just after the login?
I've no problems with it, it is just to know what to expect after the upgrade.

Thanks
 

dietmar

Proxmox Staff Member
Staff member
Apr 28, 2005
16,503
320
83
Austria
www.proxmox.com
Any potential customers who might be reading this thread could be turned away by seeing that a member of the Proxmox team can display such a negative attitude publicly.
Thanks for that hint, but I see the negative attitude on the other side.
 
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