VM freezes irregularly

AdriftAtlas said:
I updated my BIOS and ripped out the intel-microcode package. It reset my BIOS settings which I had to reconfigure. Otherwise seems to be OK.

I'd rather not depend on the OS to update the microcode if the hardware can be flashed with the latest.

Code: 
grep 'stepping\|model\|microcode' /proc/cpuinfo

model           : 156
model name      : Intel(R) Celeron(R) N5105 @ 2.00GHz
stepping        : 0
microcode       : 0x24000024
Click to expand...
How did the update work? You flashed the iso on a USB stick and booted from it? Did you need to do anything, like choosing the right entry in a Chinese menu? And did you need to reset the BIOS settings or set something special?
 
Neuer_User said:
How did the update work? You flashed the iso on a USB stick and booted from it? Did you need to do anything, like choosing the right entry in a Chinese menu? And did you need to reset the BIOS settings or set something special?
Click to expand...

I used Rufus to write the ISO to a USB stick in native ISO mode. Booted with USB stick by hitting F11 on splash screen. It automatically loads the flash tool and flashes the BIOS. Takes a few minutes for it to write and verify BIOS after which it tells you to power cycle. Everything is in English other than the ISO name which you can rename.

It does reset your BIOS settings to default so make a note of any settings you have modified. You'll need to redo them after the update.

More here:
https://forums.servethehome.com/ind...ke-proxmox-kvm-qemu-vm-guest-stability.38824/
 
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I think I have the same issue, but maybe not? I can't keep a pfsense or opnsense VM running for more than a day or few to save my life, I always see the CPU jump to 50% (I give it two cores) and it stays unresponsive until I manually restart the VM. There's no kernel panic or anything in the logs that I can find at all. I started with a vnopn box with a J4125 cpu, ended up replacing ram, and m.2 drive, then got a Protectli VP2420 with a J6412 cpu with new ram new storage, same issue is following me around like a ghost, still can't keep a pfsense or an opnsense VM running more than a day without a freeze/lockup of the VM. The host (proxmox) never crashes or panics. I'm so incredibly frustrated by this. I can't even use the watchdog to kick it in the pants when this happens because there is no watchdog driver under freebsd for the virtual watchdog hardware. My microcode is x17 which hasn't been updated by intel since July 2022 so I don't think it's that? I'm close to giving up on this and don't know what else to try aside from running pfsense on baremetal and giving up my desire to virtualize it. I've tried all that I can think to do, and then some. Yet no one else seems to be having this problem with Elkhart Lake's and Gemini Lake's are not affected? It's only Jasper's?
 
Last edited:
sinisterspatula said:
I think I have the same issue, but maybe not? I can't keep a pfsense or opnsense VM running for more than a day or few to save my life, I always see the CPU jump to 50% (I give it two cores) and it stays unresponsive until I manually restart the VM. There's no kernel panic or anything in the logs that I can find at all. I started with a vnopn box with a J4125 cpu, ended up replacing ram, and m.2 drive, then got a Protectli VP2420 with a J6412 cpu with new ram new storage, same issue is following me around like a ghost, still can't keep a pfsense or an opnsense VM running more than a day without a freeze/lockup of the VM. The host (proxmox) never crashes or panics. I'm so incredibly frustrated by this. I can't even use the watchdog to kick it in the pants when this happens because there is no watchdog driver under freebsd for the virtual watchdog hardware. My microcode is x17 which hasn't been updated by intel since July 2022 so I don't think it's that? I'm close to giving up on this and don't know what else to try aside from running pfsense on baremetal and giving up my desire to virtualize it. I've tried all that I can think to do, and then some. Yet no one else seems to be having this problem with Elkhart Lake's and Gemini Lake's are not affected? It's only Jasper's?
Click to expand...

That does sound like the same issue and it does appear you're running the latest microcode for your CPU.

Maybe buy yourself a box with an N5105 specifically with a Changwang/CWWK v5 board? At least it has an updated BIOS with fixed microcode.
 
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sinisterspatula said:
I think I have the same issue, but maybe not? I can't keep a pfsense or opnsense VM running for more than a day or few to save my life, I always see the CPU jump to 50% (I give it two cores) and it stays unresponsive until I manually restart the VM. There's no kernel panic or anything in the logs that I can find at all. I started with a vnopn box with a J4125 cpu, ended up replacing ram, and m.2 drive, then got a Protectli VP2420 with a J6412 cpu with new ram new storage, same issue is following me around like a ghost, still can't keep a pfsense or an opnsense VM running more than a day without a freeze/lockup of the VM. The host (proxmox) never crashes or panics. I'm so incredibly frustrated by this. I can't even use the watchdog to kick it in the pants when this happens because there is no watchdog driver under freebsd for the virtual watchdog hardware. My microcode is x17 which hasn't been updated by intel since July 2022 so I don't think it's that? I'm close to giving up on this and don't know what else to try aside from running pfsense on baremetal and giving up my desire to virtualize it. I've tried all that I can think to do, and then some. Yet no one else seems to be having this problem with Elkhart Lake's and Gemini Lake's are not affected? It's only Jasper's?
Click to expand...
I'm feeling with you.
People are saying that Protectli have a very good customer service. That's actually why they are paying the premium price compared to all the other available boxes. Maybe you contact customer service and see if they have a solution? Or, if not, maybe they exchange the box against a N5105 driven box?
 
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There really isn't a need to get a CWWK N5105/N6005 box, you are better off with the 8505 for better performance, and around the same price, or you can look at the i3/i5/i7 12th gen. The only thing to note is Promox, you need Kernel 6.1 or above.

The only advantage for Protectli is Coreboot, imo, but the processor is usually older. So no N5105/N6005/8505 or the i3/5/7 12th gen. If you are not on the Coreboot BIOS and using the AMI one, you should consider switching. Just make sure to install Proxmox using UEFI and not Legacy BIOS. Since Coreboot is an Opensource modular BIOS, you will find BIOS upgrades easily even when the manufacturer stops the BIOS development. (maybe).

N5105 v3/v4/v5 BIOS should work with the N6005 v3/v4/v5 CWWK boxes as well.

@AdriftAtlas on the STH forums, "chicken blood" version is not the complete slang, The whole slang is "chicken blood all open" which basically means, all functions enabled for changing without regards to the wisdom/need of it. I can't read / understand Chinese, but that's what a Mandarin speaking person doing the translation for me, explained.
 
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beisser said:
yep this thread is only about vm freezes/reboots.
if your host is crashing that is probably a new issue.
Click to expand...
There is a relation because there are posts recommending kernel upgrades and microcode updates within Proxmox. I would expect that these do have impact on the host don't you think?
 
hannibal1969 said:
There is a relation because there are posts recommending kernel upgrades and microcode updates within Proxmox. I would expect that these do have impact on the host don't you think?
Click to expand...
they for sure have an effect on the host, but if there was a relation, then everyone here would be seeing their hosts crash and people just dont see that.
on the other hand everyone here is seeing their vms crash without the proper microcode.

so i would say whatever is causing the host crashes is not the outdated microcode or everyone with that respective version of microcode would be affected.
 
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hannibal1969 said:
Is that really the way to check uptime of the VM hosted on Proxmox? When my pfSense crashed Proxmox showed it still as up. And the uptime was still counting upwards. I think you need to go to the console of pfSense and choose "8" for shell and type "uptime".
Click to expand...
that is correct. proxmox keeps counting up even if the os inside the vm reboots.

either look at the uptime inside the opnsense-gui or do it via cli from the console of the vm.
 
beisser said:
they for sure have an effect on the host, but if there was a relation, then everyone here would be seeing their hosts crash and people just dont see that.
on the other hand everyone here is seeing their vms crash without the proper microcode.

so i would say whatever is causing the host crashes is not the outdated microcode or everyone with that respective version of microcode would be affected.
Click to expand...
Yes I had it once. I saw also on the host logging a -- Reboot -- with no further details explaining why.
 
Hi I had also stability issue on my N5105. Read this thread and happy to find a possible solution.
  1. I have upgraded the kernel to 6.2.9-1-pve,
  2. I have updated the microcode and the microcode is also loaded 0x24000024.
  3. I'm wondering if I need to update the mainboard bios to Changwang N5105-V3-V4-V5 microcode update 2023-04-18 released (chicken blood version)?
It looks this bios fixes 1 and 2 but can introduce severe heat issue?

P.S. anybody knows how to write this iso? BelenaEtcher complains about missing partition info resulting an unbeatable USB.
 
hannibal1969 said:
Yes I had it once. I saw also on the host logging a -- Reboot -- with no further details explaining why.
Click to expand...
yes you had it, ok. but everyone else here doesnt have it (with any microcode version), which proves my point that there is no relation between the host crashing and the microcode version.

but everyone had their vms crash and the microcode fixed it -> relation between vms crashing and microcode version
 
hannibal1969 said:
Hi I had also stability issue on my N5105. Read this thread and happy to find a possible solution.
  1. I have upgraded the kernel to 6.2.9-1-pve,
  2. I have updated the microcode and the microcode is also loaded 0x24000024.
  3. I'm wondering if I need to update the mainboard bios to Changwang N5105-V3-V4-V5 microcode update 2023-04-18 released (chicken blood version)?
It looks this bios fixes 1 and 2 but can introduce severe heat issue?

P.S. anybody knows how to write this iso? BelenaEtcher complains about missing partition info resulting an unbeatable USB.
Click to expand...
i usually write iso's to sticks using rufus. can you try that?
 
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beisser said:
yes you had it, ok. but everyone else here doesnt have it (with any microcode version), which proves my point that there is no relation between the host crashing and the microcode version.

but everyone had their vms crash and the microcode fixed it -> relation between vms crashing and microcode version
Click to expand...
Are you sure everybody investigated the Proxmox Logs? My Proxmox is back again in 12 secs so if it happened at night maybe nobody noticed.
 
hannibal1969 said:
Are you sure everybody investigated the Proxmox Logs? My Proxmox is back again in 12 secs so if it happened at night maybe nobody noticed.
Click to expand...
proxmox has a nice big uptime counter in the gui, which resets if the host crashes.
and people were looking at the gui all the time because of the vm crashes.
im pretty sure people would have noticed if the host itself suddenly resets is uptime.
 
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beisser said:
proxmox has a nice big uptime counter in the gui, which resets if the host crashes.
and people were looking at the gui all the time because of the vm crashes.
im pretty sure people would have noticed if the host itself suddenly resets is uptime.
Click to expand...
that's a valid point I always clicked first on the PVE - summary to see it. If you open the Gui it starts at datacenter and I see indeed from there now also the "Uptime" Cool!
 
beisser said:
i usually write iso's to sticks using rufus. can you try that?
Click to expand...
will try it later. First let's examine if my system will stay stable from now on with new microcode and kernel update.
My temps are about:
CPU Core 1: 56.0℃ | CPU Core 2: 56.0℃ | CPU Core 3: 56.0℃ | CPU Core 4: 56.0℃
max about
CPU Core 1: 74.0℃ | CPU Core 2: 79.0℃ | CPU Core 3: 76.0℃ | CPU Core 4: 77.0℃
 
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So I guess the update from the OPNsense gui is not from the OPNsense VM's CLI?
There are 2 host screen capture and one from the webgui (VM).

If you do not have a CWWK N5105/N6005 v3/4/5 box do not use the BIOS update, only do so if u are absolutely sure.

If your box is hovering around 50C at idle, you might have issues with over heating if the host is crashing.
 
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