Roadmap to KVM Templates

[mlanner]

spirit, mmenaz ... others,

I've been using the exact process described by many in this thread "cloning" KVM machines, essentially having a backed up VM as a "template." Works well and it usually takes less than 5 mins to get a new, clean VM provisioned. Granted, it includes some manual steps, but it's not that big of a deal. Still, sure, it would be awfully nice if it could be automated.

I'm by no means a dev, so I can't really contribute code. However, I can contribute with some potential ideas/solutions. I've been following Salt Cloud, a spin-off product from Salt (by SaltStack), which is also open source. It provides a cloud orchestration layer (think Chef, Puppet), which can with relative ease be adapted to do many different things and work with different "cloud providers." So, spirit, if you're working on a "KVM template" feature for Proxmox, Salt Cloud may be of interest to you ... if you didn't already know about it.

 

[Tinuva]

Hi,
I am also interested in KVM templates but can't figure out from the conversation and documentation thus far if what I want is possible/available yet....

So to try and make the question as simple as possible, few facts:
- We will create the images ourselves since we do have the licenses
- We want when a customer click to order a new KVM VPS, that the VPS is created from a OS template (which they selected in the order) automatically to reduce time that would have been needed for a clean install from ISO

Thus is the only way currently do this via a restore from an already created VPS?

The idea is to have it completely automated so that no manual steps is required, but this doesn't seem to be the case from what I have read thus far.

 

[tom]

Hi,
I am also interested in KVM templates but can't figure out from the conversation and documentation thus far if what I want is possible/available yet....

So to try and make the question as simple as possible, few facts:
- We will create the images ourselves since we do have the licenses
- We want when a customer click to order a new KVM VPS, that the VPS is created from a OS template (which they selected in the order) automatically to reduce time that would have been needed for a clean install from ISO

Thus is the only way currently do this via a restore from an already created VPS?

The idea is to have it completely automated so that no manual steps is required, but this doesn't seem to be the case from what I have read thus far.

See http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/VM_Templates_and_Clones

 

[ehabh]

KVM templates jus like openvz templates would be nice to have really. Other opensource "cloud" platforms have that

 

[MACscr]

I agree. I have no idea why proxmox isnt providing them. Most other solutions as ehabh pointed out already provide them. Heck, i cant think of any major project that doesnt.

 

[unixsmeden]

I prefer to use a simple bootstrap w, PXE and then use Puppet for all configuration. For Windows a template would perhaps save enough time to be valuable. But it's no big deal for me and I think that the work put into the storage options is better spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tom]

I agree. I have no idea why proxmox isnt providing them. Most other solutions as ehabh pointed out already provide them. Heck, i cant think of any major project that doesnt.

You can build your own templates with a few clicks. And you can use the ISO installer of your preferred template provider, e.g. from http://www.turnkeylinux.org/

Sothere are already a lot of solutions for templates on Proxmox VE.

 

[MACscr]

You can build your own templates with a few clicks. And you can use the ISO installer of your preferred template provider, e.g. from http://www.turnkeylinux.org/

Sothere are already a lot of solutions for templates on Proxmox VE.

Same with openvz templates, yet you provide them. No reason to use installers for kvm when images can be used. Much faster deployments and easier to manage. Again, every other major product provides it, so why cant you? Not really fair that you offer the openvz ones but completely ignore the kvm users that would like the same treatment.

 

[tom]

Same with openvz templates, yet you provide them. No reason to use installers for kvm when images can be used. Much faster deployments and easier to manage. Again, every other major product provides it, so why cant you? Not really fair that you offer the openvz ones but completely ignore the kvm users that would like the same treatment.

Seems you did not get the point. We do not ignore KVM, instead we developed a very cool template solution where you can deploy multiples VM´s in seconds, by using linked clones.

Read again on: http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/VM_Templates_and_Clones

 

[MACscr]

Seems you did not get the point. We do not ignore KVM, instead we developed a very cool template solution where you can deploy multiples VM´s in seconds, by using linked clones.

Read again on: http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/VM_Templates_and_Clones

I didnt miss that at all and I dont think others did as well that want premade kvm templates offered through proxmox just like openvz. Keyword is premade. Aka, we dont have to create our own and even more importantly, we dont have to create new ones when different OS's come out with new releases. This is a pretty standard solution that cloudmin, onapp, openstack, opennebula, and many others all currently provide.

 

[tom]

You do not have to create you own VM template.

If you like permade templates, use for example the ISOs distributed from turnkeylinux.

Short howto:
- Create a new VM, add the TKL ISO and a virtual disk, do all custom settings you need
- Mark this VM as template

So you have all what you need in 30 seconds, perfectly integrated and optimized for your custom Proxmox VE installation.

 

[MACscr]

Are there specific instructions listed somewhere for using TKL with Proxmox for KVM use? From basic instructions, you mention an iso, which to me then implies an installation process and probably the need to run a console to go through the process. I am not sure how you are thinking this is anywhere as convenient as simply having a list of premade images already like they are for openvz guests.

Also, unless I am blind, TKL just seems to offer apps. I dont see how this easily gives be me vanilla ubuntu, centos, debian, fedora templates. Both in 32 bit and 64bit.

 

[Raymond Burns]

Wow.
Every once in a while, conversations go over the top on these forums.
I just read all of this dance and I'm not really clear.
TEMPLATES are being used as "We want to be able to download a Windows Server 2012 Template and it is already setup"? Like preformatted templates?

So this is to refrain from having to install any ISO? How would it be possible to clear the ssh keys, hostnames, etc.?
I may be a newbie to this retrospect, but the additional 5 minutes it takes me to get a CentOS iso installed and backed up for a BASE image just seems irrelevant. However, if vmWare is doing this, I would like to know what this process is called. I have both vmWare and Xen where I work, and we are currently full Proxmox for our VM Host. But if I'm missing features, please point them out so I can compare.

 

[MACscr]

Wow.
Every once in a while, conversations go over the top on these forums.
I just read all of this dance and I'm not really clear.
TEMPLATES are being used as "We want to be able to download a Windows Server 2012 Template and it is already setup"? Like preformatted templates?

So this is to refrain from having to install any ISO? How would it be possible to clear the ssh keys, hostnames, etc.?
I may be a newbie to this retrospect, but the additional 5 minutes it takes me to get a CentOS iso installed and backed up for a BASE image just seems irrelevant. However, if vmWare is doing this, I would like to know what this process is called. I have both vmWare and Xen where I work, and we are currently full Proxmox for our VM Host. But if I'm missing features, please point them out so I can compare.

Im not sure how windows got brought into the topic. No one expects that and obviously not possible because of licensing issues. Ive already listed multiple virtualization solutions that provide such *nix based templates. Proxmox does as well. They just dont offer them for kvm instances. I am also not sure how premade templates are mind blowing. You cant argue against that they are faster to implement and use less resources to deploy. Its how most vm providers deploy instances.

 

[mo_]

However, if vmWare is doing this, I would like to know what this process is called.

as far as I know they dont. However vmware has some weird ISO that it automatically boots instead of the actual installer ISO, which then calls the installer iso for OSses it knows and automates the installation process by using certain presets determined by vmware. This is sort of an automation script and has nothing to do with distributed templates. I also want to add that in my experiments with vmware I found the defaults set by these scripts to be rather lackluster and not useful at all.


Furthermore, I too am puzzled about the stance some people have taken in this. Proxmox is a software suite - more to the point, its infrastructure software. YOU download it, YOU deploy it, YOU work with it. It is providing infrastructure for you. For some reason, some people expect Proxmox to be a service that will cater to all of their possible needs, which is sort of the antithesis from what software is. YOU control software and customize it to do what you need from it with all the tools and options it does provide for you... not the other way around. And thats not to mention that offered templates can NEVER be a 100% perfect fit for your environment, thats just not possible, so you have to customize them anyhow. And if you cannot spare 5 minutes ONCE every new major system release (think RHEL6/7 release, so once a year if that!) to create a custom fitted template then something is very wrong in my opinion.

 

[Raymond Burns]

I think there is no reviving this thread. Everything will be in the context of hostility.
Instead of trying to justify what I was saying and the meaning behind it, it will be much easier to just say...
I am under the impression, although *nix based KVM Templates may be something that is desired by you and several other people, I don't believe Proxmox has a general audience that requires that feature when it is in comparison to the current immediate roadmap features. Furthermore, an alternative has already been provided through the KVM Templating system. This is not the same as having the instantly available KVM templates, which is obviously a very nice feature to have. That goes without saying, "community driven" Proxmox has not had a special desire/need/request for that.
Now that there is a request, however the request was made, I believe it will be up for evaluation. Similar to having SPICE features... everything is evaluated and weighed.
OAN: @spirit has established that as a community supporter/developer, it is on his personal roadmap, and, although it is easier to purchase a ready made system from the other providers, there are benefits to having a community driven system with "Foundational" stable support. Eventually, these generous additions from developers become part of the stable package, however, the community has to understand that all features and requests are weighed in relation to what is more pressing.
I don't believe that Proxmox has ignored the request for KVM templates, however, I do believe that the "Band AID" for that particular feature is still holding. Therefore, the new fix will not weigh as much unless the "Band AID" fails and attention is given to that wound.

I am not a spokesperson or anything for Proxmox, but I do support there ideas and there model of development and support. Saying that to say, we are all contributors in respect to request/development, but no one owes anyone anything.
Therefore any requests/ideas have to be taken in consideration to other requests and ideas. My company and place of work greatly desires a SPICE VDI solution from Proxmox. And I can get them a lot of business if they do this. Your company and place of work desires KVM Templates, and you can get them a lot of business if they do this. Unless we are supply the funding and business up front to make this happen, then Proxmox is accountable to themselves, and only because of their business model are our requests even valid or worth looking into.

I hope that was read with good intentions because no matter what happens, we are requesting a service in hopes to return something to the service provider. Therefore, the ball is in the service providers court...

 

[MACscr]

Raymond,

I understand and agree to an extent. I was just more frustrated with the lack of understanding by others that this feature is something that Proxmox already provides for openvz and the same arguments that can be used for providing or not providing premade kvm templates can also be used for why or why not premade openvz templates are needed. They both provide a time saving solution to both administrators and the end users. Obviously this is a feature request and I wasnt trying to be demanding as I mentioned, was more just frustrated by quick dismissal of the request even though its pretty much a standard feature on most (95%) of other virtualization infrastructure solutions. Ok, no point in beating a dead horse anymore. I think everyone knows my views on the topic. =)

 

[m.ardito]

I am wondering how many kvm "free software" templates the community is asking for.
Are you looking for KVM linux "free software" templates?
Are you looking for KVM *bsd "free software" templates?

I feel (but I am not sure) that most kvm template requesters wish to have Windows templates ready.
If it is so, PVE team alway said "Microsoft licensing does not allow this, so we will never do that ourselves". And I agree, I wouldn't do that too.

Other projects could anyway do that, and who knows if they have special agreements or do it in spite of it being against Microsoft licensing.
Those other project doing that, in any way, for sure can take advantage of kvm clones and linked clones feature, that was missing on PVE until recently.
PVE developers created the kvm clones and linked clones feature, so anyone could do whatever they need.

How can someone not understand and respect this kind of support for both community wishes and third party licensing?

On the openvz side, you can find many (and use them freely) "free software" linux templates, just because most pve users use openz for linux servers.
You won't find any RHEL templates provided by pve (or turnkey, btw), I think.
Of course everyone could do that on their own, but that's in violation, I think, of Red hat licensing.

If, in the end, you prefer other projects, I think PVE team/developers think you're welcome (I think the same), and this will never make them change their opinion about going against other parties licensing...

@PVE developers/team: this is my understanding of the matter, after a few years here around: please correct me if I am wrong in any way.

My 2c,
Marco