DR Replication to a cloud based provider

[yunmkfed]

Hi,

Has anyone successfully managed to replicate a Proxmox VE to a Cloud-based provider? The use case would be to have Proxmox running locally with the remote site being a DR site. The RTO / RPO are < 5 hours. The server hosts MS SQL Server and the amount of traffic is relativly low.

I would be interested in learning what providers others have used and how the topic was approached. I am Europe-based and would prefer, for GDPR and latency reasons a EU-based company.

Thanks

 

[Johannes S]

Sadly I have no actual experience but I think this might be useful for it:
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/PVE-zsync

 

[yunmkfed]

Sadly I have no actual experience but I think this might be useful for it:
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/PVE-zsync

Thanks for the link; will look at it.

This request is less experimental; I was asked for a solution from a company who would go the subscribed route in production environment following a POC. Trying out an untested solution is not something I would like to do with them. They want a DR site they can reroute to if the main site goes down. An Active-Passive setup would work fine for them.

 

[Johannes S]

Thanks for the link; will look at it.

This request is less experimental; I was asked for a solution from a company who would go the subscribed route in production environment following a POC. Trying out an untested solution is not something I would like to do with them. They want a DR site they can reroute to if the main site goes down. An Active-Passive setup would work fine for them.

Another way would be to have a dedicated server running ProxmoxVE and a VM with Proxmix BackupServer. Backup your VMs to the PBS, in case of error restore the VMs o the remote PVE. It will most likrly have more data loss than with ZFS though

 

[alexskysilk]

Hi,

Has anyone successfully managed to replicate a Proxmox VE to a Cloud-based provider? The use case would be to have Proxmox running locally with the remote site being a DR site. The RTO / RPO are < 5 hours. The server hosts MS SQL Server and the amount of traffic is relativly low.

I would be interested in learning what providers others have used and how the topic was approached. I am Europe-based and would prefer, for GDPR and latency reasons a EU-based company.

Thanks

It would be theoretically possible to replicate to any kvm based host, but it would probably be more useful/advantageous to replicate the application instead, eg mssql (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../sql-server-replication?view=sql-server-ver16)

That would also open the door to active multihoming/load balancing.

 

[yunmkfed]

Another way would be to have a dedicated server running ProxmoxVE and a VM with Proxmix BackupServer. Backup your VMs to the PBS, in case of error restore the VMs o the remote PVE. It will most likrly have more data loss than with ZFS though

The blocking point is adding another server. The request is to have it at a different location and their other location is not suitable for hosting equipment.

 

[yunmkfed]

It would be theoretically possible to replicate to any kvm based host, but it would probably be more useful/advantageous to replicate the application instead, eg mssql (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../sql-server-replication?view=sql-server-ver16)

That would also open the door to active multihoming/load balancing.

That is the option I am seriously considering and I know that with a cloud provider this is doable because I have done it a number of times. My only query was whether I could do it with Proxmox. Going for a Proxmox subscription model and also having a cloud provider subscription is not something I can justify given that the client has been running a bare-metal solution without any issues for years (other than occasional server upgrades). There are the usual actions such as offsite backups, validations, etc.

My line of thinking was to suggest a solution that addresses the need (DR) and lowers the RTO / RPO.

 

[Johannes S]

The blocking point is adding another server. The request is to have it at a different location and their other location is not suitable for hosting equipment.

So they want it a different location but not using another server, not even in a datacenter? Yyou asked whether you could replicate a ProxmoxVE environment to a Cloudprovider, a cloud vserver or dedicated server are still "another server". I thought that you want another ProxmoxVE install and replicate the vms to it or did I miss something? pve-zsync needs ProxmoxVE and a ZFS storage on the remote server.
How much data is stored on the onsite server at the moment?
E.G. hetzner dedicated servers start around fourty to fifty euros. Of course (depending on your storage and RAM needs) you might need to invest more but I would still expect that for around 100 to 130 Euros you could easily have a dedicated server which could serve as combined ProxmoxBackupServer and emergency environment. Such setups where discussed in the German subforum some time ago (use DeepL if you don't understand German): https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/ist-es-möglich-pbs-mit-aws-s3-blockspeicher-zu-betreiben.152790

Of course this is an additional expence so the question is what would be more expensive: Lower RTO/RPO but higher operating costs or lower operating costs but higher RTO/RPO. And also of course Hetzner is not the only option for such a setup, another one would be OVH for example or a provider of a vserver which supports nested virtualization

My line of thinking was to suggest a solution that addresses the need (DR) and lowers the RTO / RPO.

Well nobody can force your client to buy a subscription for the offsite ProxmoxVE. Of course they couldn't open support tickets for any issues with it but if I understood you correctly the idea would be to use the offsite environment just for business continuity until the onsite VE is ready and running again.

 

[yunmkfed]

So they want it a different location but not using another server, not even in a datacenter? Yyou asked whether you could replicate a ProxmoxVE environment to a Cloudprovider, a cloud vserver or dedicated server are still "another server". I thought that you want another ProxmoxVE install and replicate the vms to it or did I miss something? pve-zsync needs ProxmoxVE and a ZFS storage on the remote server.
How much data is stored on the onsite server at the moment?
E.G. hetzner dedicated servers start around fourty to fifty euros. Of course (depending on your storage and RAM needs) you might need to invest more but I would still expect that for around 100 to 130 Euros you could easily have a dedicated server which could serve as combined ProxmoxBackupServer and emergency environment. Such setups where discussed in the German subforum some time ago (use DeepL if you don't understand German): https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/ist-es-möglich-pbs-mit-aws-s3-blockspeicher-zu-betreiben.152790

Of course this is an additional expence so the question is what would be more expensive: Lower RTO/RPO but higher operating costs or lower operating costs but higher RTO/RPO. And also of course Hetzner is not the only option for such a setup, another one would be OVH for example or a provider of a vserver which supports nested virtualization


Well nobody can force your client to buy a subscription for the offsite ProxmoxVE. Of course they couldn't open support tickets for any issues with it but if I understood you correctly the idea would be to use the offsite environment just for business continuity until the onsite VE is ready and running again.

You assumptions are pretty much accurate. The day-to-day operation would be onsite with a subscription. I would prefer a solution that others can recommend because they are using it. RTO/RPO are agreed and provided they stay under this threshold it is OK. An improvement would help justify the additional investment.

The data (excluding Windows Server OS) is around 60G

Thank you - will translate and read.

 

[alexskysilk]

y only query was whether I could do it with Proxmox. Going for a Proxmox subscription model and also having a cloud provider subscription is not something I can justify given that the client has been running a bare-metal solution without any issues for years

... I am completely confused.

Did the customer request a DR solution, or is this something you are trying to convince them to do? if it aint broke dont fix it. If they DID request a solution, why do you need to justify costs?

 

[Johannes S]

You assumptions are pretty much accurate. The day-to-day operation would be onsite with a subscription. I would prefer a solution that others can recommend because they are using it. RTO/RPO are agreed and provided they stay under this threshold it is OK. An improvement would help justify the additional investment.

The data (excluding Windows Server OS) is around 60G

Thank you - will translate and read.

If it wasn't clear: The given numbers are for monthly rent of a dedicated server inside a data center. Since you said that the data is around 60 GB (let's be generous and assume that it together with windows it's around 100 GB per VM) one rather basic dedicated server will propably be enough. On the other hand PBS isn't capable to do application-aware Backups so it might be better to go the road to implement the replication on application level like suggested by alexskysilk. Of course the replicated database could still live on a VM inside a ProxmoxVE on some offsite server in a datacenter

 

[yunmkfed]

Did the customer request a DR solution, or is this something you are trying to convince them to do? if it aint broke dont fix it. If they DID request a solution, why do you need to justify costs?

Because in life a solution may cost x or it may cost 100x and it would be a disservice to the customer who relies on someone to shove them a solution that is an overkill. Furthermore customers I work with then to ask for advice and it is my jobs to try to provide them with what I feel is the best solution I am aware of. The DR is a request by the company; I am looking at whether Proxmox would be a contender.

 

[alexskysilk]

A Proxmox license is not REQUIRED regardless of function. It is a good idea if you intend to deploy it in production, regardless of function.