Add a option to the new release of PVE ISO

[cesarpk]

Hi to all

I would like to request a new feature for the new PVE ISO installer, and it is that it has the option of choose in which existing partition of disk will procedure with the installation.

It is due to that in case of have a server with PVE installed, and you want to install a new PVE version above of the existing one (using the new PVE ISO), but as you have the disk partitioned by the old PVE installer, the great danger is that a minimun mistake, and you can install PVE over two or more existing partitions.

With this new feature in the PVE ISO installer, we will be sure of not commit a serious mistake, and it will avoid the overlap to some other important partition of the same disk.

BR
Cesar

 

[fabian]

you don't need to reinstall to get the new version - simply upgrade. we don't have such complicated (and error-prone) features in our installer in order to keep it simple. if you need greater control over partitioning / installation targets, you can install Debian Jessie and upgrade to PVE.

 

[cesarpk]

Hi Fabian, thanks for your prompt reply.

Please, let me to say few things (only as fundaments):

About of the human errors:

1- When i speak of errors, i am referring to human errors in the person that will do the installation, and not in the software, for example, write bad in the keyboard the space of the partition for the installation of PVE, that can overlay any other important partition of the same disk.

2- The PVE developers know about of the human errors, and because of that, in PVE 4.x version, for delete a VM, they added these features:
a) A virtual machine number confirmation before that the VM be deleted.
b) In the VM options, the option "Protection", that it is for avoid strictly a accidental deletion.
c) Ie, here we have two layers of protection only for avoid delete accidentally a VM.

3- In a production environment, with the PVE ISO installation, a human error of this nature could become really fatal, considering that will be in risk all information of any other partition that be near in the same disk.

About of the upgrades:

4- If you know a little the history of the PVE and his releases, you will know that between PVE 1.x version and PVE 2.x version aren't compatibles, also between the PVE 3.x and the PVE 4.x
Then, as in this kind of cases is necessary reinstall the software (as also configure the new PVE Cluster in some cases), i would not be surprised if in some future release of PVE, this procedure of reinstallation must be repeated.

About of the need of reinstall PVE:

5- I know many people in the forum, that when they have problems with his PVE, reinstall the software (for example, a ISO bad downloaded, and a without number of other kinds of problems which also occur).

6- Sometimes, in a lab, for do tests, it is more easy reinstall the software that revert the changes (always with very careful of not overlay some other important partition).

About of disadvantages of add this feature:

7- From my point of view, adding such an option not has some disadvantage.

About of life philosophy:

8- The murphy's Law (i guess that you know it).
9- A wise and well-known refrain that says: "Even to best hunter, the hare get escape".
10- Humans are prone to make mistakes.

The great question:

If the PVE developers team took so many precautions for avoid the accidental deletion of a VM, and here we have a great risk if we have a human error in the installation of PVE (assigning wrongly a size for the partition), and that also can be necessary reinstall it by a large number of need differents, why not also take one more precaution, and add the option that i request in the PVE ISO installer?.

Please, consider that with this risk in game, we are talking of a complete partition, with much information inside it, that can be losed!!!.


BR
Cesar

 

[tom]

Your idea does not make any sense for me and it would create countless follow up issues.

Our installer is simple, if you do not want the simple one, just use the Debian installer.

 

[cesarpk]

Your idea does not make any sense for me and it would create countless follow up issues.

About of that my idea would create countless follow up issues, I do not think so, because if it were true, all the Linux distributions that enable such an option would had problems, and personally I can say that in any forum or mailing list of these providers, I never read of some problem like this (since more than 20 years ago).

Anyway, many thanks for your prompt reply, at least, I already understand his closed posture on this situation.

BR
Cesar

P.S: I hope that you never have to repent of this decision.

 

[LnxBil]

Fortunately, I do not know people that accidentally overwrite their production servers by mistake or try to reinstall the OS on error. That's so Windows and has no place in the Unix world. If you (not you per se, but you as the ordinary user) does not know what you're doing, you have to live with the consequences. If you'd loose data in an enterprise environment due to this grossly negligent behaviour, that person should be fired immediately.

Enough ranting :-D

In a simple installer, you can make less errors than in a complex one, so the idea behind Proxmox VE is just right. The sheer number of possibilities where the proposed features can go wrong are enormous, so not worth the implementation. But as always: Patch/write it yourself and try to get it merged.

There are documented upgrade paths from PVE 3 to 4 in the Wiki and in the forums, so your point is not completely true. Yes, it is recommended to do a reinstall, but this is due to the enormous change "under the hood". In the ordinary PVE installer, there are no partitions except /boot, so some "in-place-update" has to be done, which is also normal for big distributions like RHEL in a major upgrade, which is not possible in-place without data loss (= overwriting your OS). If you'd have additional partitions on Proxmox VE, you have created them on your own.

 

[cesarpk]

Fortunately, I do not know people that accidentally overwrite their production servers by mistake or try to reinstall the OS on error.

And also, i do not know people that accidentally delete a VM, but the PVE developers team made sure of put much security for avoid it.

That's so Windows and has no place in the Unix world.

Both Windows and Linux systems has the option of choose the partition for the installation of system.

If you'd loose data in an enterprise environment due to this grossly negligent behaviour, that person should be fired immediately.

I agree, also for the people that accidentally deleted VMs.

There are documented upgrade paths from PVE 3 to 4 in the Wiki and in the forums, so your point is not completely true. Yes, it is recommended to do a reinstall, but this is due to the enormous change "under the hood".

I agree, but i was reading in this forum that many people had problems with upgrade procedure.

BR
Cesar

 

[LnxBil]

And also, i do not know people that accidentally delete a VM, but the PVE developers team made sure of put much security for avoid it.

Yeah, I was also astonished about that feature.

I agree, but i was reading in this forum that many people had problems with upgrade procedure.

Yes, but often, they do not read the documentation correctly (at least for the posts I read). If I were to upgrade a system, I'd clone it and try as long as I have still doubts about an upgrade path or errors. We live in an almost fully virtualized world where this is possible.