virtual nas (Freenas?), pve guidelines/best practices?

[m.ardito]

Hi,
Is a thing I never tried to do, but now I need a nas just to store backups (actually copies of), so I wish to experiment with a virtual freenas instance on a spare old server (cpu is one e3120, so kvm should work)
Does anyone have pve guidelines/best practices? 32 or 64 bit? ram/proc/flags/disk type, etc? I also planned to use pci passthrough for freenas vm mass storage, if possible and advisable (it seems so: https://forums.freenas.org/index.ph...ide-to-not-completely-losing-your-data.12714/)


[edit] now marked as solved: but there is no advisable solution, nas vm seems never a good idea (see thread) [/edit]
Thanks
Marco

 

[mir]

Re: virtual Freenas, pve guidelines/best practices?

Hi,
so I wish to experiment with a virtual freenas instance on a spare old server (cpu is one e3120, so kvm should work)

Why do you want to virtualize it? If the server's only use case is for running a virtual FreeNAS I don't get the point.

 

[term]

Re: virtual Freenas, pve guidelines/best practices?

I would read the first link in that post - they constantly preach not to virtualize FreeNAS. I don't understand what is to be gained by adding an additional layer of complexity to your life by running it under KVM. That said, plan to set aside at least 16GB of ECC to keep it happy. It can be CPU hungry as well. Keep those in mind and it should be good enough to store backups (not VMs themselves).

 

[m.ardito]

Re: virtual Freenas, pve guidelines/best practices?

Why do you want to virtualize it? If the server's only use case is for running a virtual FreeNAS I don't get the point.

well, yes, but
* I have limited access to server class hardware, I just have this spare old unit unused. Atm it has a testing zentyal kvm, but this could go in the and
* I never tried freenas or other storage managers so I could try others too, at the same time, and compare them (suggestions)?
* as freenas it should only serve some shares to replicate backups made elsewhere
* in its "spare time" the pve node could have other roles, also as a third (quorum) node in a (currently) two nodes cluster.
* why not, apart from the overhead (probably not critical in this case, imho)? why loose the versatility offered by an hypervisor, like the easy "whole server" backup & others?

I agree that I could be just addicted to pve, now, and wish to use only virtualized servers, though

For now I just wish to know if there is an optimal way to do this in pve, if in the end I could have to go this way.

Marco

 

[m.ardito]

Re: virtual Freenas, pve guidelines/best practices?

rewriting it, could it just be a bad idea to have a virtual backup storage, freenas or not? I could just setup a pve node for other uses (quorum, small services on kvms/ovzs), and add to the node a minimal samba config to serve some shares for the backup replica job. But I thought that having a web/gui to manage those shares could be good, but didn't want to dedicate a whole physical server to hold copies of backups. That's where the freenas virt idea came from.

Marco

 

[m.ardito]

Re: virtual Freenas, pve guidelines/best practices?

something simpler could fit better in a virtual environment?
I don't need high performances or fancy features here, I just need easiness & reliability
to be honest, if I could buy a small ready 3/4 disk nas like some qnap or sinology models, that would fit my needs, in this case, but atm this is not possible, and the old spare server is there...

eg: instead of freenas, would a debian (phisical or vm/ct) with samba/nfs & GOsa (or webmin, or...) be a better choice? or nas4free? or else, in your opinion/experience?

Thanks,
Marco

 

[pirateghost]

Do not virtualize Freenas or nas4free.

If you just want to play around with NAS software, go ahead, but dont rely on virtualized NAS. One day you will regret it. As a test environment with non critical data no problem. Don't make it your network storage though.

 

[mir]

If it is simply for backups why not buy a cheap 2-bay Qnap or Synology? Your old Xeon based rig will consume 10 times as much power as a simple NAS so you will have financed your buy within a year.

 

[sdutremble]

Just get a Western Digital Cloud Drive. Cheap and easy to share as NFS for backups.

You can replicate it and make easy off-site storage for your backups.

Can't be simpler than that and works quite well.

Serge

 

[mir]

A backup facility in the clouds requires a very speedy internet connection.

 

[sdutremble]

I meant a Western Digital MyCloud Drive. It is a NAS.

This is the successor to the Western Digital MyBook.

About $150 for a 2TB single drive NAS.

My apologies for the confusion.

Serge

 

[m.ardito]

Re: virtual Freenas, pve guidelines/best practices?

I just need easiness & reliability to be honest, if I could buy a small ready 3/4 disk nas like some qnap or sinology models, that would fit my needs, in this case, but atm this is not possible, and the old spare server is there...

If it is simply for backups why not buy a cheap 2-bay Qnap or Synology?

I meant a Western Digital MyCloud Drive. It is a NAS.

Hi thanks all for replying.

As I said before, sadly the company management is not allowing me any new hardware for this task, even some small qnaps or similar. I need at least some redundancy - I need reliable backup copies - so raid 1 mirroring is a minimum, the WD units are mostly 1 disk so not allowing this. And I'd like a system that warns me if there is any dangerous situation, like hard disk failures, or else.

If I could use the old spare server also for other purposes, with virtualization, its much higher power footprint would be more justified by other useful services. Otherwise I could also turn it on with WOL just for backup copy sessions to complete, and then switch it off.

Sadly I have to manage also "managers" who want everything done asap, but without understanding much. The main concern often seems to be: "do that well and fast but without asking me any money now". Sad, but true, atm.

In the end, from your experience, I get that network storage is one of the computing areas for which virtualization is not an answer, and this has to be done physically. Lesson learned, thanks.

Marco

 

[mcflym]

Well...

i am running Openmediavault as a VM...

passthrough of my LSI SAS Controller... Software RAID 6 with 8 Drives (4TB each)

Don't see why that should be a problem?!

just my 2 cents...

 

[pirateghost]

Well...

i am running Openmediavault as a VM...

passthrough of my LSI SAS Controller... Software RAID 6 with 8 Drives (4TB each)

Don't see why that should be a problem?!

just my 2 cents...

Open media vault isn't Freenas. Freenas is in a league of its own and simply does not like to be virtualized

 

[mir]

There is no problem as long as proxmox is working but if the worst thing happen I would like to have my backups in a safe place with no dependencies to something else.

 

[m.ardito]

Sorry, I still don't understand if a virtual nas is a bad choice in all cases, or if some os/setup/hardware/scope choice is good and others are bad: is there a clear answer or is matter of personal fears or experiences?

I am open to use whatever works well, if there is one, otherwise I'll get to a physical nas.

Marco

 

[mir]

Having a backup system which functionality depend on the system for which it is supposed to backup is inherently bad and bound to fail in its hour of glory.

 

[m.ardito]

Having a backup system which functionality depend on the system for which it is supposed to backup

sorry, now I realize I did not specify an important thing more clearly: I dont need this vm to take pve vm backups !!!
I need this for have a copy of usual lan backups, taken on a nfs (nas, qnap) disk with usual backup software, like hp openview data protector, backuppc...

my bad, but obviously I won't rely on a pve vm to keep backup of itself and other vms there !!!
I never thought of doing such a stupid thing...

sorry all, if this was confusing... maybe this helps me to get some new hints...

Marco

 

[mir]

In that case I guess your are free to pick what ever suits you

 

[m.ardito]

In that case I guess your are free to pick what ever suits you

well.. but I opened this thread to hear about what pve users consider a good choice for this task in a pve kvm machine. I started asking for with freenas, because I often see it mentioned in threads here, so I thought it was popular as a vm, too. At least I learned that is better not to use a virtual freenas, for many reasons.

I still wonder amongst the many possible choices, what is people using on kvm when (if) they need a virtual nas for tasks like holding backup copies or users files (not pve vm backups, of course), instead of a basic debian serving share with nfs or samba.

If I search on the internet I easily get many different free OS available:
freenas
nas4free
openfiler
openmediavault
opendedup (nas virtual appliance)
...and others

I got most of these names from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network-attached_storage#Examples (<<They can run from a virtual machine, Live CD, bootable USB flash drive (Live USB), or from one of the mounted hard drives>>).

I hope anyone wish to share his experience with one of those (or others) in particular when (if) run as a pve kvm machine. Or, I would like to know if a virtual nas is always a bad idea or it depends on other factors like os/setup/hardware/scope, since up to now I still couldn't really get a clear idea.

Thanks, Marco