[slightly OT] can someone explain win7 guest licensing on kvm?

M

m.ardito

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Feb 17, 2010
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Torino, Italy
Hi,
i really can't understand MS licensing, especially when it comes to windows 7 virtualized as guest on an hypervisor (i want to use kvm)

even my usual vendor can't figure really out how they are licensing this, so i searched through MS pages about this and found this page:
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/virtualization.aspx#tab=3

where one can download this:
http://download.microsoft.com/downl.../licensing_windows7_with_VM_technologies.docx

which is updated october 2011 and says:
<<Licensing the Windows Desktop Operating System

For Windows operating system software licensed through retail (FPP) or preinstalled on a PC (OEM), Windows use rights are outlined in the Software License Terms that accompany the software. These license terms provide use rights to run Windows locally on the licensed device in a virtual operating system environment (OSE); however they do not provide use rights for accessing Windows running remotely in a virtual OSE from the licensed device, and are limited in other ways when compared to virtualization use rights provided with Windows Software Assurance, Windows Intune, and Windows VDA licenses acquired through Microsoft Volume Licensing. For example, neither FPP nor OEM licenses permit remote access to a Windows virtual machine (VM) running in a datacenter. For this, a license obtained through Microsoft Volume Licensing is required.>>

the last paragraph is what concern me most:
<<neither FPP nor OEM licenses permit remote access to a Windows virtual machine (VM) running in a datacenter. For this, a license obtained through Microsoft Volume Licensing is required>>

? is this meaning even with a "full" retail copy of win 7 professional (costing me about 280 eur + vat) i cannot run this ona a "datacenter"?
so am i forcedo to use a <<license obtained through Microsoft Volume Licensing>>??

it seems absurd to me, but, can anyone confirm this is correct and i did understand it well? :confused:

Thx, Marco
 
@dietmar i know of MS and if i got a cristal clear information from them, i would have not written here. i guess many of this forum readers are today virtualizing MS os, maybe desktop ones, and just asked their point of view. i read sometimes on this forum of people that claim to have windows desktop os virtualized, and their experience would be precious to me, and others. it could end up in a useful wiki section, too. and, if i have to activate a volume license i have to speak with a reseller, not with MS itself, and resellers are confused as i am, at least mine resellers.

@e100 thank you, i've read that page but i think it does not apply, and that i've not well explained my situation (<<Microsoft SPLA is the only Microsoft Volume Licensing program that allows Microsoft products to be used for commercial hosting.>>), as my virtualization needs are all internal to my company: i do not "sell" or "rent" services, hosts, space, nothing.

i work for a (no-profit) small consortium organizing training courses (mostly public/private funded) mainly for small/medium companies that need to re-qualify/upgrade the knowloedge of their workers/employees, and 99% of those courses take place in the companies, in their buildings, with their stuff and all, we only manage the organization, teachers, training books and so on, so we usually do not have the need to provide classrooms for them.

i run some servers on openvz/kvm on proxmox, and i see all the benefits. now i wish to extend those benefits also to the desktop area, or at least experiment something to test the tech and see if we can (with our limited resources) apply that to, eg, our accounting offices and more. so i tried to test/start with our internal IT training classroom: we have only a small IT internal training room (12 pc) that's used for a small part of our training offer, when we need to merge people from different really small companies (so they need a common classroom).

now this training room needs an upgrade (old physical xp machines): i thought to make those pc "virtual", both as an experiment to test the tech, as i said before (i think it will be rhev, probably, or something very similar), but also to have the chance to offer also "other os/setup" training, like linuxes, windows servers, other pc setups, anything, on the same machines. i was thinking to use those 5-6 years pcs as "thin" (not so thin) clients.

i hope that better explaining my needs helps someone to understand me and help or give hints.

but, do you all folks understand this paragraph:
<<neither FPP nor OEM licenses permit remote access to a Windows virtual machine (VM) running in a datacenter. For this, a license obtained through Microsoft Volume Licensing is required>>
as i do? it is not possibile to virtualize a windows virtual machine with retail license?

Marco
 
you should ask about MS licensing in a MS forum, not here. I know that you like the expertise from our community but the final response has to come from MS. also, licensing could be country specific, at least I got such an info from MS in other projects (some time ago).

if you do not like do deal with MS, move to Linux Desktops.
 
thanks tom, you're right but as i dont' like ms, i don't like ms forums either :(, and while obviously i like the expertise from this community there's another reason for asking that here: this community deals with open source hypervisors, while the MS forums/pages often are about MS hypervisors, and MS licensing could treat those cases differently. i fear.

yes, licensing could be country specific, but i thought to hear experiences here first.
[update] just found a forum post, the same docx above is referenced to "explain", it should be valid globally i think. asked for more info there, will report.

unfortunately i cannot force companies to use the desktop system i prefer, 99,9% here use MS, so i have to train them on MS systems.

and, while i like linux i also like MS systems (desktop in particular), what i don't like about MS is the licensing because it is so difficult to understand, IMHO. i mean i sometimes think that some violations that are around the world could be of people that needs to work instead of spending time to understand what MS wants you to do, and update frequently. anyway, if you think that's useful, i will report here r in the wiki what i get, to help others.

Marco
 
Last edited:
If Full Packaged Product (FPP) is not zllowed to run in a "datacenter" the I would assume that means you can not use the way you describe.

You are right that SPLA is not what you want for internal use.
MS does have other volume license programs for internal use, you need to use one of those programs.

I find that most resellers will simply quote MS licensing documents.
Yor best bet is to contact MS to get a clear concise answer from them and then purchase what MS says you need from a reseller..
 
hi all,
i spent some time questioning, reading, posting, and i had to make up my personal vision, because MS docs are not IMHO that clear (and the only reported "typical" usage scenarios are really weird IMHO), and my main MS vendor admints he never sold anything like that, and i'm the first asking... then today i found this post (referring to vmware but really applies to any virtual environment) which has the exact words i ad in mind and wished to write here (it is even written much better than i could do...):

http://www.vmguru.nl/wordpress/2011...rosoft-windows-7-for-vmware-view-deployments/

so, reassuming, this is how MS "virtual desktop licensing" works now... the only legal way AFAIK:

[NB: I am not complaining here on MS products or licensing strategies at all, i am only trying to simply explain what it is not so simple to understand about their licensing strategy reading through dozens of different their web site and downloadable documents]

1) the key point is that MS gives you the right to have virtual MS desktops if you have the right to access them...

2) but you cannot buy a permanent right to access virtual MS desktops, you have to subscribe for the right to access them (it is a 3y contract, atm)

3) this means that you don't need to have a license for the vm, at all, what you need to have is a license for the device that accesses the vm.

4) thare are two different kind of subscription you can have:
- software assurance (SA)
- virtual desktop access (VDA)

5) how to choose which subscription: you really can't...
both of those subscriptions bring the same "rights" but apply to different kinds of "accessing" devices

SA is for devices running " qualified " ("Qualifying Operating Systems" for Volume Licensing, read "corporate") MS operating systems, even older ones.
see:
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/windows7.aspx#tab=4 and
http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/product-licensing-faq.aspx#tab=2

SA should have an approximate cost of 50-60 $/€ / device / year

VDA is for devices NOT running "qualified" (read "corporate") MS operating systems
eg: thin clients, macos pcs, linux pc, smartphones, tablets, even "not qualified" MS OSes, whatever cannot have a SA subscription.
ie: windows 7 "home" edition needs a VDA, because it can't have a SA

VDA should have an approximate cost of 100-120 $/€ / device / year

6) the rights you get after "choosing" er detailed in the above vmguru post very well:

speaking about VDA subscription:
<<

  • Access Windows 7, Windows Vista®, or Windows XP on VMware View <sic> virtual machines;
  • Unlimited movement between servers and storage;
  • Access corporate desktop images from non-corporate PCs;
  • The primary user of a Windows VDA device has extended roaming rights, so they can access their VMware View desktop while roaming outside of the corporate domain from any non-corporate device, such as a home PC or Internet kiosk;
  • Includes Software Assurance benefits, such as 24×7 call support, training vouchers, access to Enterprise versions of Windows, etc.
  • Single Windows VDA license allows concurrent access for up to four virtual machines;
  • Reassignment rights to another device after 90 days, or in the case of end-point failure;
  • Dynamic desktop licensing enabled through KMS/MAK activation;
  • Unlimited backups of both running and stored VMs;
>>

I hope that other users here will benefit from this post and all that is related, i just wished to share.

Marco
 
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