Proxmox 6.0 + Windows 10, VM often goes black + CPU 80%

fellow1033

New Member
Jul 28, 2019
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Had already replaced server replaced at Hetzner (i9 9900k).

VM often will go black, disconnect RDP, console black, CPU goes steady to 80%

Mem 20GB,
CPU 10 (2 sockets, 5 cores) [host}
Bios SeaBios
Display Deafult
Machine i440fx
SCSI VirtIO SCSI
Network virtio

Replacement of a server didn't helped at all.

It won't allow to reboot the VM, I have to shut down all dozen of other VM to restart whole proxmox server.
 

adamb

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Mar 1, 2012
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fellow1033

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Jul 28, 2019
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Don't know either, have another VM and seems to be working fine (same ISO).

However fact that I have to reset whole system via Hetzner panel is not acceptable, unfortunately we've decided to ditch Proxmox as some of VM's are crucial part of our infrastructure (before used mainly ESXI / Bare metal) and cannot go offline everytime one of VM's will has black screen, simply the one of most important requirements for micro-services is not fulfilled by this part of Proxmox (that was something that I knew for a long time, but actually never used Proxmox as a part of live infrastructure, no matter what server it was using, what version there was always a case of Linux/Windows VM hanging to the point that only hard reset of a server can shut it down. Not sure how any company is able to handle this behaviour of Proxmox ? (same behaviour is present on Dell (from gen 2014-2018) / HP / custom)

Is there any tool that can transfer Proxmox VM => ESXI ?
 

adamb

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2012
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We have been using proxmox for almost 10 years with minimal issues. The vast majority of our infrastructure is based on it. However we run and manage our own hardware which is probably the largest difference. We have been running IBM and HP for years and years, we have 10's and 100's of servers out there. Its unfortunate you had a bad experience, but I don't think this is a proxmox issue per say.

If your asking basic questions like converting disks, it makes me wonder what else your missing. Either way, qemu-img is your friend.
 

ricardoj

Member
Oct 16, 2018
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Sao Paulo - Brazil
Hi,

I'm running 18 Windows 10 1903 using "spice" protocol ( no RDP ) and I see no problem.

Server hardware : 2 Ryzen 7 with 64 GB each

Most Windows VM have 3 GB RAM and 2 vCPUs + 40 GB disk + Samba server access

This environment supports an accounting office ( real work - not a LAB )

It works great since October 2018 ( started witn Windows 10 1803 ).

Regards,

Ricardo Jorge
 
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fellow1033

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Jul 28, 2019
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Well it doesn't help at all as there is number of same threads.

I am sure that there is bunch of people that Proxmox is working for, but you won't find a single company > 20 dedicated machines with > 50 different VM's that is using Proxmox.


CPU going to 80%, no fix for that.

Black screen randomly, no fix for that.

Issue with unresponsive VM that cannot be stopped/restarted, no fix for that.

Fact that Proxmox is working in 95% doesn't mean that it is a good solution, when you start scaling outside 10-30 machines with 10-20 VM's on each, you will start seeing the issue why the edge use case can be an issue to even consider Proxmox in production environment.


Proxmox is unreliable and unsuitable for production environment and/or > 10 machines with > 50 VM's (we're using wide of technologies, different OS's and Proxmox was removed from our check list as extremely unreriable no matter the version, VM OS and hardware (same issues are happing on rack Dells, HP and custom rack servers).


There is a reason why no one would pay a single penny for Proxmox in comparison to ESXi or other virtualization pro systems.
 

fellow1033

New Member
Jul 28, 2019
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We have been using proxmox for almost 10 years with minimal issues. The vast majority of our infrastructure is based on it. However we run and manage our own hardware which is probably the largest difference. We have been running IBM and HP for years and years, we have 10's and 100's of servers out there. Its unfortunate you had a bad experience, but I don't think this is a proxmox issue per say.

If your asking basic questions like converting disks, it makes me wonder what else your missing. Either way, qemu-img is your friend.
Why would know how to convert ESXI => Proxmox if proxmox was just setup on few test servers and just recently was noticed as something that maybe we could test.

You cannot provide solution to very popular issues with Proxmox (black screen, cpu 80% (is proxmox mining bitcoins :D and no way to reset VM (no matter what OS) in certain cases, and we only have < 30 VM's on different Proxmox and few servers, and saw this issue number of times, didn't bothered me as those were test server for unimportant stuff, mainly for development stage of software)), so am not sure why are you trying to defend this.

Provide solution to those issue that are very common and then we can talk about anything else.
 

fellow1033

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Jul 28, 2019
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What do you mean? Did you try to hard stop? This is very strange.
If the VM doesn't stop, I think you have some serious configuration or hardware problem...
LOL

Type in this issue in Google, hundreds of same topics, clearly you have not much of experience with Proxmox.

Sure same issue between number of different servers, OS's and providers :)

There is only one constant. Proxmox.

It is not config (often default) or hardware problem as it happens through out dozens of VM's and on EVERY server (no matter brand, spec).

Proxmox is amateur piece of hyper and that is why it is for free. No one would pay for this a single dime. (if they would, then the legal law suits would be so often that this company would wind up within weeks).

If we would allow any of Proxmox server beyond latest one, to run within our production environment we would be loosing thousands $$$ per month due to number of different PROXMOX issues that it has.
 

dendi

Member
Nov 17, 2011
105
7
18
Sorry, I manage only about two dozen of proxmox ve servers at the moment with linux and windows vms.
I dind't refer to vm problem but to the qemu problem. In normal situations the VM must stop at the hypervisor level, regardless of the guest OS (no clean shutdown).
If not, you will receive an error: what error do you have?
My english is not perfect too, please try to understand me.
 

spirit

Well-Known Member
Apr 2, 2010
3,422
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www.odiso.com
I am sure that there is bunch of people that Proxmox is working for, but you won't find a single company > 20 dedicated machines with > 50 different VM's that is using Proxmox.
I'm running 80 proxmox servers , with around 4000 vms without any problem. (since proxmox 1.9).
Running my own datacenter, with dell and supermicro servers. (mainly intel xeon v2->v5, and some old amd bulldoze).
Running debian && centos guests, and win2003->2019 guests

I never had problem with linux guests, sometime with win10 and their shitty updates bug. (Last one was a cpu usage bug, introduced by microsoft patch and fixed 3 months later ....)
 
Jun 1, 2019
134
20
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33
Moscow, Russia
Hello,

Managed to solve the problem. It's an issue related to graphics driver after the 1903 update and it's a known issue.
The issue manifests after initiating an RDP session, then exiting the session without the logout of the user.

To replicate the issue:
  1. Create a Windows 10 1903 VM (CPU should be at ~0-1% idle)
  2. Access the VM via RDP connection
  3. Close the connection (CPU should be at ~20-30% idle, depending on the number of sessions and CPU settings)
Details: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/dwmexe-high-cpu-one-core-on-target-system-after/dbce0938-60c5-4051-81ef-468e51d743ab

The solution

As a workaround on all of my affected machines I have used Group Policy Editor to set:

Code:
Local Computer Policy
⌞ Computer Configuration
 ⌞ Administrative Templates
  ⌞ Windows Components
   ⌞ Remote Desktop Service
    ⌞ Remote Desktop Session Host
     ⌞ Remote Session Environment
      ⌞ Use WDDM graphics display driver for Remote Desktop Connections
to DISABLED

This forces RDP to use the old (and now deprecated XDDM drivers).

After the reboot, the idle should go to the normal 0-1%.
 

adamb

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2012
1,019
28
48
Hello,

Managed to solve the problem. It's an issue related to graphics driver after the 1903 update and it's a known issue.
The issue manifests after initiating an RDP session, then exiting the session without the logout of the user.

To replicate the issue:
  1. Create a Windows 10 1903 VM (CPU should be at ~0-1% idle)
  2. Access the VM via RDP connection
  3. Close the connection (CPU should be at ~20-30% idle, depending on the number of sessions and CPU settings)
Details: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/dwmexe-high-cpu-one-core-on-target-system-after/dbce0938-60c5-4051-81ef-468e51d743ab

The solution

As a workaround on all of my affected machines I have used Group Policy Editor to set:

Code:
Local Computer Policy
⌞ Computer Configuration
 ⌞ Administrative Templates
  ⌞ Windows Components
   ⌞ Remote Desktop Service
    ⌞ Remote Desktop Session Host
     ⌞ Remote Session Environment
      ⌞ Use WDDM graphics display driver for Remote Desktop Connections
to DISABLED

This forces RDP to use the old (and now deprecated XDDM drivers).

After the reboot, the idle should go to the normal 0-1%.

On a side note, I posted this fix in the 2nd post lol.
 

fellow1033

New Member
Jul 28, 2019
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Solution ?

Install other hypervisor.

Suddenly all issues disappeared.

Running now for over 10 days ,100 % uptime.

All VM's working, all OS's working.

No more problems, no more costs in downtime (the costs of downtime is too big to play with proxmox, it is good to use it in a home lab, not a business live environment)


We are using VMWare ESXI, but I guess any other hypervisor will be better than Proxmox (it is very finnicky, prone to crashes, issues etc. Even UI doesn't work properly when you want to change some of settings).

We've tried proxmox ~ 2 years ago, was binned within days due to number of bugs.

In 2019 Proxmox is still not close to RC, it is maybe late Beta.

Don't use it, unless you get SLA with them and they will pay for every second of downtime due to bugs. (probably would be worth then, put couple servers that would be constantly going down and they would.

Black screen is one thing. Another is rebooting VM or whole server.

There is tons of bugs even on highly compatible hardware (i.e. HP Gen8/Gen9)
 

adamb

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2012
1,019
28
48
Solution ?

Install other hypervisor.

Suddenly all issues disappeared.

Running now for over 10 days ,100 % uptime.

All VM's working, all OS's working.

No more problems, no more costs in downtime (the costs of downtime is too big to play with proxmox, it is good to use it in a home lab, not a business live environment)


We are using VMWare ESXI, but I guess any other hypervisor will be better than Proxmox (it is very finnicky, prone to crashes, issues etc. Even UI doesn't work properly when you want to change some of settings).

We've tried proxmox ~ 2 years ago, was binned within days due to number of bugs.

In 2019 Proxmox is still not close to RC, it is maybe late Beta.

Don't use it, unless you get SLA with them and they will pay for every second of downtime due to bugs. (probably would be worth then, put couple servers that would be constantly going down and they would.

Black screen is one thing. Another is rebooting VM or whole server.

There is tons of bugs even on highly compatible hardware (i.e. HP Gen8/Gen9)
Plenty of people with very successful environments, its unfortunate you can't figure out your issues. If the forums were littered with posts like yours, it would be one thing, but its not. I can tell from your response you don't know enough to run this type of enviroment. Your better off with a phone number to call!
 

fellow1033

New Member
Jul 28, 2019
12
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Plenty of people with very successful environments, its unfortunate you can't figure out your issues. If the forums were littered with posts like yours, it would be one thing, but its not. I can tell from your response you don't know enough to run this type of enviroment. Your better off with a phone number to call!

True, I don't know Proxmox enough as I don't have time to figure out why DEFAULT VM is loosing VNC, why VM is rebooting, why there sudden CPU high load, why host is resetting.

I do not care.

We have over 40 machines running ESXI all around the globe and they all working fine. Don't need any more knowledge for ESXI.


Your forum maybe not, but Reddit, Stock and more is full of same issues.

Only people here are living in deny.

For free you get something like Proxmox.

We could loose majority of our customers if we would deploy proxmox into core infrastructure as we have double, triply and quadriply redundancy on our API's as we never can go down. Even for a second and we process millions of requests per hour.

Proxmox is not for that kind a task.

It is designed for home labs and people interested with finding out the Proxmox bugs.

In business environment the Proxmox is a no go.
 

adamb

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2012
1,019
28
48
True, I don't know Proxmox enough as I don't have time to figure out why DEFAULT VM is loosing VNC, why VM is rebooting, why there sudden CPU high load, why host is resetting.

I do not care.

We have over 40 machines running ESXI all around the globe and they all working fine. Don't need any more knowledge for ESXI.
Yep and we have 1000's of VM's and 100's of proxmox hosts and yet we don't have any issues. Good luck!
 

fellow1033

New Member
Jul 28, 2019
12
0
1
31
Yep and we have 1000's of VM's and 100's of proxmox hosts and yet we don't have any issues. Good luck!

And ?

Who cares that proxmox is working with very narrow config and OS.

It is all about the spectrum.

Grow the business into more OS and you will see that quickly proxmox is degrading.

How narrow is your point of view that you can see only one case. It is working for ypu so it is great.

ROTFL
 

adamb

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2012
1,019
28
48
And ?

Who cares that proxmox is working with very narrow config and OS.

It is all about the spectrum.

Grow the business into more OS and you will see that quickly proxmox is degrading.

How narrow is your point of view that you can see only one case. It is working for ypu so it is great.

ROTFL
We run plenty of OS's. Either way, good luck with your endeavours!
 

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