Managing updates

[Faris Raouf]

I'm a little concerned about the way that updates are released for Proxmox.

As we require stability more than anything else, we are very cautious about updates. I am also new to Debian and Proxmox, so there's even more caution involved.

A recent update that was released for 5.3 had the potential to cause problems under certain circumstances, as discussed in this forum, so I had planned things in advance to update this weekend, having tested and assured myself all would be well and that I would be able to detect and prevent the update from causing problems. (in any case the issue had been resolved by a newer package so the possibility of issues was minimal to now by now).

And now, just before I update, I see we have 5.4 released. I don't want to install 5.4. I want to continue with the update to 5.3 that I had planned and then later update to 5.4 after planning and testing it first. But I can't see a way to do this.

So I was wondering if, like certain control panels and OSes, we might have major and minor updates separated? It would make update planning and testing much easier.

 

[tom]

the updates for 5.3 are now just called 5.4. So not installing packages with bug fixes is the wrong approach.

if you want to use best tested updates, consider the pve-enterprise repository, if you see issues contact our support teams https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Get_support, if you see bugs, report them via https://bugzilla.proxmox.com

if you have crititcal systems, you should test the updates before you deploy it on your production servers. you can test by running latest code from git or use the beta repository on pvetest.

 

[alexskysilk]

if you have crititcal systems, you should test the updates before you deploy it on your production servers

THIS. cant be stressed enough. and not only for proxmox; any software that runs in a production environment; if you expect someone else to do the due diligence for you be prepared to pay dearly for it, monetary and otherwise.

 

[Faris Raouf]

I already test everything on a test cluster. And I already subscribe to the Enterprise repo. I have since day 1, on both the production and test cluster. I would subscribe to the support option, but as all my customers are businesses, I have to do maintenance over the weekend. And support is not available at weekends, making it not particularly useful. I really need 24/7 support, not weekday business hours only.

I don't think my subscription would have prevented me from being affected by the two, or possibly three issues that stick in my mind and worry me to this day. I think they were present in the enterprise repo too.

I also agree that installing bugfix updates is vital. But can 5.4 really be considered a bugfix? It is full of new features. In fact that's all the announcement is about. They are really great new features - no doubt about that. But can all these new features really not require some changes in the code of the underlying software? Maybe if I was a coder or developer I would be able to tell at a glance. Unfortunately I am just a user.

But my testing is a single cluster with a single hardware configuration. You as Proxmox developers will already have done far more testing than I am capable of. And yet significant bugs still get through. It is impossible to prevent. The complexity of the product and infinite configuration possibilities make perfection impossible. That's why I do not want to install something immediately after it has been released. It is not sensible (unless it is a critical security update, in which case there's not much choice, is there).

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticising. I just feel that feature updates should be differentiated from bug fixes. I want to install bugfixes ASAP. Feature upgrades are not so important.

Am I really so far off the mark with this?

 

[alexskysilk]

you are not wrong wrt to proxmox specifically, but I think you're getting hung up on the ".4"

There are two ways to look at it-
1. you dont strictly HAVE to do a dist-upgrade; the release of 5.4 does not mean the end of support for 5.x; you can get many (all?) of the patches by doing a regular update (this does beg a question tho- @tom are there bug fixes that are only preset on 5.4?)
2. the minor point release, while introducing new features, should not cause previous functionality to change. If it does, then your criticism is more then warranted. @tom can you speak to this point?

 

[tom]

I already test everything on a test cluster.

If you find issues on your tests, why do also update your production cluster? Or do not get issues on your production cluster so what is your question then?

Seems I just lost your point.

We support latest packages, sometime we increase also the number to a new point release like we did it today, together with a new ISO release.

 

[LnxBil]

I would subscribe to the support option, but as all my customers are businesses, I have to do maintenance over the weekend.

You can easily do rolling releases in a cluster. We do this all the time:

- move all VMs to other nodes
- patch and reboot the freed node
- check node after reboot
- repeat for all other pve hosts