[SOLVED] Does Proxmox 8 Work on Modern Computers? YES!

[Nollimox]

This is not a condescending question but a serious question: does Proxmox work on modern computers made 2017 - presence?
Never wasted so much time trying to install it on a Dell Precision 5820 Xeon w-2135 yet I never had this much issues installing
Proxmox 7.4 on a 2018 Dell Precision 3630...at least I could install 8 and it booted. So, it's either Proxmox 8 isn't compatible with Xeon
processor or modern computers that doesn't use grub. So, it begs the question

Here, for perspective, others described the same exact issue: https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/proxmox-8-installer-freezes-at-boot.129341/

Then, one comes on the forum just to have conversation with self...no response...sad, indeed.

 

[scyto]

Yes. Installed on a brand new intel 13th gen NuC with thunderbolt - all working ok.

Proxmox 8 used debian 12, so just about anything Debian 12 works on should be ok.

https://www.proxmox.com/en/proxmox-virtual-environment/requirements

 

[scyto]

Also with the attitude and lack of detail in your post it’s no wonder nobody replied.

For example did you try nodeset approach linked in the thread, did you try installing 7.4 and upgrading (this would seem an acceptable workaround) etc, what else did you try, maybe start with a productive question and not a moan and you might get a productive answer. Also the forum mainly gets answers EU time so 1:15 PST is getting a little late in the day to demand answers from people giving their time freely.

 

[Nollimox]

Also with the attitude and lack of detail in your post it’s no wonder nobody replied.

Please see here or maybe you had seen it: https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/8-0-installer-stuck-waiting-for-dev.133128/

did you try installing 7.4

Sure did...didn't work either...same exact issue and came to the conclusion that Proxmox must prefer a certain graphics card when Intel Xeon processor is the hardware. However, that's not listed anywhere. I don't need fancy graphics and thought the Nvidia NVS-310 would be sufficient since its compatible with all Dell Precision 5820 with Xeon.

and not a moan and you might get a productive answer.

I know it may seem I have an attitude or interrupted that way. However, I am an entrepreneur launching a product while I had been learning Proxmox...time is limited. As I said, I started with a Dell Precision 3630 and was able upgrade from 7.4 to v8 despite some hiccups. When through hell after upgrading trying to boot pfSense...turned out to be coffee lake. So, I gave away that Dell and bought the 5820 with the Xeon hoping to have pfSense run Intel QAT 8950. Never expected that I would ran into an issue with the installer.
This makes it hard to swallow if one wanted to take it to the corporate production level especially when is considered a super user.

the forum mainly gets answers EU time so 1:15 PST

I had hope it had a global audience so it did matter much like pfSense's forum...will note that though.

 

[LnxBil]

modern computers that doesn't use grub.

You mean UEFI and yes, that works fine.

Proxmox 8 used debian 12, so just about anything Debian 12 works on should be ok.

Mostly yes, but PVE uses the Ubuntu LTS kernel, so anything that is supported and/or certified on Ubuntu (as stated on the vendors certification matrix) should work just out-of-the-box.

I've installed it on a lot of different hardware and besides the no-mode/black-screen-problem never encountered any other problem that was not present before like forgot to configure raid or faulty hardware and could also be detected in the Linux flavor of your choice. You can also always just install Debian 12 and on top PVE, if that helps.

 

[Nollimox]

You mean UEFI and yes, that works fine.

Yeah, I know...I had installed Proxmox 7.0 and on a Dell Precision 3630 for the first time in March of this year. Then, upgraded to v7.4 as well as v8.0.

besides the no-mode/black-screen-problem

But, this is a major show stopper since 2014...we're in 2023, almost ten years later and it has not been resolved. Like I had said, I am a superuser...I have been installing OS since the mid eighties most on Macs...I have never had an OS that failed to boot. Since, the 90's I have been exploring virtualization since VirtualPC, mostly installing windows OS, then later on VirtualBox, installing windows, Fedora, OpenSuSe, Ubuntu, FreeBSD, Etc.

My brother, who had been a software developer for major U.S banks and who is now retired, since the early 80's and interestingly warned me about Proxmox saying "he wouldn't touch that," and that's after installing Proxmox v7 and exploring it.

But, I like Proxmox preferring it over VMWare, for example, based on my earlier exploring.

However, Proxmox 8 seems to confirmed my brother's warning...first was the coffee lake problem that caused getting rid of a perfectly good computer only to discover that the server quality hardware, the Dell Precision 5820 with the Xeon processor after looking on eBay for the best price, not expecting that this would be a show stop.

You can also always just install Debian 12 and on top PVE, if that helps.

That's inefficiency...or it implied that PVE, based on Debian 12, somehow removed drivers which make it unusable on some server quality hardware, such as hardware with Intel Xeon processor, a well-established server quality hardware...doesn't make sense.

So, I am at a cross road...a project that should have been completed by June has dragged out to September to a stop...

But, I like Proxmox...what a dilemma!

 

[Dunuin]

PVE doesn't require any 3D GPUs. Works perfectly fine with the crappiest onboard GPUs (and I really mean onboard, not iGPU...the things that can barely handle a VGA output...) of BMCs.

That's inefficiency...or it implied that PVE, based on Debian 12, somehow removed drivers which make it unusable on some server quality hardware, such as hardware with Intel Xeon processor, a well-established server quality hardware...doesn't make sense.

I think you don't get it. You install Debian 12 (which is PVE8 based on anyway) using the more powerful Debian installer and later convert that into a "normal" PVE by installing the proxmox-ve package which also contains the custom PVE kernel. So drivers, hardware support and so on are all the same. Only big difference would be that you can`t boot from ZFS and you are not using the proxmox-boot-tool as the Debian installer isn't supporting this at the time of installation.

 

[Nollimox]

Works perfectly fine with the crappiest onboard GPUs

I believe that's the problem with the Dell Precision 5820 platform...it never had an on-board graphics card integrated and one always have to add a graphics card...at least, Proxmox should have the drivers for Nvidia NVS 310/315.

Only big difference would be that you can`t boot from ZFS

That's a major show stop and proved how inefficient install Debian 12 then install PVE package is...I have been using ZFS since 2018 on pfSense and needed that because I'll will have pfSense VM. This is a private cloud project that will interact with public cloud providers.

Now, I am seeing why my brother says run from Proxmox...I am stubborn though.

 

[Dunuin]

I have been using ZFS since 2018 on pfSense and needed that because I'll will have pfSense VM.

First, pfsense doesn't require ZFS. There are other options. Second, ZFS in a VM is always possible and has nothing to do with ZFS on the host. More over, you should avoid running ZFS on top of ZFS because of amplifying overhead.
And installing Debian 12 won't prevent you from using ZFS because as soon as you install the proxmox-ve package you are using the PVE kernel that already comes patched with ZFS support. Nothing stops you from later creating a ZFS pool on your disks when telling the installer to leave some space unallocated. You just can't boot from ZFS, so your root filesystem wouldn't be on ZFS. But for example btrfs could be used if you want something similar to ZFS.

And PVE8 comes with a text-mode installer. If you really want you could even install it without a GPU using the serial console using a dumb terminal from the 60s...

For a power user you are complaining alot without actually understanding what is really happening under the hood or trying to use workarounds...

 

[Nollimox]

First, pfsense doesn't require ZFS

pfSense had been using ZFS since its 2.5 version...starting with v2.6, it's required which also is my requirement.

you should avoid running ZFS on top of ZFS because of amplifying overhead

It worked, just fine, in my experience installing Proxmox 7.0 on the Dell Precision 3630 that had on-board integrated graphics; however, I did have a situation where it got stuck finding the rpool and that appeared to have been resolve4 in 7.4/8.0

installing Debian 12 won't prevent you from using ZFS

If that's the case, I shall try that later...is there a guide? Will I be able to use belenaEtcher to create a bootable USB with Debian 12? I am most concern about how do I install the Proxmox package after...

 

[Nollimox]

I read this: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Install_Proxmox_VE_on_Debian_12_Bookworm

Apparently, it support UEFI..."To force manual network configuration in the UEFI installer, press E"

 

[Dunuin]

pfSense had been using ZFS since its 2.5 version...starting with v2.6, it's required which also is my requirement.

According to manual it still supports UFS: https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en...-walkthrough.html#figure-installer-partitions

The Partitioning step selects the filesystem for the firewall’s target disk.

The ZFS filesystem type is more reliable and has more features than UFS, however ZFS can be memory hungry. Either filesystem will work on hardware with several GB of RAM, but if RAM usage is critical to other tasks that will run on this firewall, UFS is a more conservative choice. For hardware that requires UEFI, use ZFS.

I read this: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Install_Proxmox_VE_on_Debian_12_Bookworm

Jep, that the guide that should be followed. To create ZFS pool later partition it with the tool of your choice (fdisk/parted/gparted/sgdisk/gdisk), then create a pool like you would do it with every other system ("zpool create ...") using that newly created partition and later add a ZFS storage to PVE in the PVE webUI at "Datacenter -> Storage -> Add -> ZFS" pointing to the mountpoint of the pool.

 

[Nollimox]

According to manual it still supports UFS

Yes, however most enthusiast not only have sufficient RAM but also use just ZFS...my production hardware (bare metal Lenovo) has 32GB RAM. The Dell Precision 5820 has 128GB RAM. From my earlier Mac days, the firsy thing I do after buying a Mac is to max out the RAM.

 

[Dunuin]

But still not that important when running inside a VM. You also get the benefits of bit rot protection, block level compression, thin-provisioning of ZFS and so on when using UFS inside the guestOS when the virtual disk is stored on the hosts ZFS pool.
And on the other hand, when running ZFS in the guestOS, you don't need all the expensive features of ZFS on the host level, as you then do all the stuff like CoW, ARC caching and so on twice.

 

[Nollimox]

To create ZFS pool later partition it with the tool of your choice (fdisk/parted/gparted/sgdisk/gdisk), then create a pool like you would do it with every other system ("zpool create ..."

So, the Debian 12 installer doesn't do it automatically? It sounds like a potential problem finding rpool....

 

[Dunuin]

So, the Debian 12 installer doesn't do it automatically?

The debian installer allows for manual partitioning. But Debian ins't supporting ZFS at the time of the install, so you can't create your ZFS pool there. But you could already create a empty partition there that you later can use for creating your ZFS pool.

 

[LnxBil]

But, this is a major show stopper since 2014...we're in 2023

Why 2014? The problem arose in 7.1 IIRC, before that that specific problem was not there and was a bug in the upstream kernel and there was a working workaround. AFAIK, it has been fixed upstream and is working again.

I do not know what specific problem you have / had with graphics and how to fix it, yet I hope you get it sorted out. Maybe just swap out the GPU as other already mentioned or try the text installer. Sometimes you will have problem with strange GPUs, e.g. outputting on the wrong output. I have a similar problem on my 2009 iMac 27'' outputting on the external display, while there is none connected. This was really bad and also took me ages to figure it out. Sometimes it's just broken and often it just works. Sad that your system falls into the first category.

Can your brother elaborate what he dislikes and what software he likes with respect to virtualization? I've worked with all major players and PVE always wins for most scenarios.

 

[Nollimox]

But Debian ins't supporting ZFS at the time of the install

That's why my brother said to run away from Proxmox...I'll keep it with EXT4, then install pfSense VM with ZFS.

I would suggest that Proxmox next update/upgrade includes support for the Nvidia NVS 310/315 for Intel Xeon processor.
Modern computers are falling of lease commitment and are available to the public cheaply via eBay.

If Debian 12 doesn't support ZFS, it's not ready for prime time. Wondered when or whether Debian will support PassKey...but that another issue.

Thank you for responding!

 

[Nollimox]

Why 2014? The problem arose in 7.1 IIRC, before that that specific problem

See the link here: Well, found this thread from 2014: https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/s...l-with-dev-to-be-fully-populated-error.20211/

 

[Nollimox]

and there was a working workaround.

Yes, that's to select advance at the installer menu to install in console mode nomodeset; however, that only makes booting up after the successful install impossible because there is no on-board graphics card on the Dell Precision 5820 and no drivers to accommodate a basic GPU either for whatever card installed.