CPU type `host` is significantly SLOWER than `x86-64-v2-AES`

D

DAE51D

New Member
Oct 9, 2024
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Seattle, WA
I am shocked to discover what seems absolutely counter-intuitive to me, but maybe someone can explain me?

I have a stock Win11 24H2 and I initially set it up with x86-64-v2-AES and it was zipping along as one would expect.

1734300836343.png

Then I realized there is a 'host' CPU type and since I have a 128 GB 72 Core Dual Xeon (Lenovo Thinkstation P710) Proxmox server, I figured I'd just allocate directly as "native" HAS to be better/faster than emulated (anything) right? Wrong.

What I didn't expect is that the VM is barely usable!? The CPUs ALL peg at 100% and eventually settle down into the 50% range.

1734301535212.png

But you might be saying, "Well you started with one CPU type and changed it so..." And I'd say, "Fair point".

So then I created a fresh VM of Win 11 24H2 (from ISO) with "host" to start from the jump.
Same thing. UNBEARABLY slow.
I then toggled this new one to the x86-64-v2-AES and immediate speed improvement.

The only thing that maybe makes some sense to me would be that I have installed all those qemu "virt" drivers and maybe there's some magic/optimizations there?
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Qemu-guest-agent


And just for S&G I RE-INSTALLED the latest qemu drivers (you know, in case there was a bug or this repaired some-mismatch conflict in the CPU now or IDK), rebooted, and still unbearably slow.
https://fedorapeople.org/groups/vir...ownloads/archive-virtio/virtio-win-0.1.266-1/
1734302858000.png

And one more sanity test, I powered down. Set back to "x86-64-v2-AES" and it's zippy fast again. ?!?!?
 
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Hello DAE51D! This sounds really weird. Just to be sure, did you read the best practices on installing Windows on Proxmox VE? These are the best practices for Windows 11. Make sure to install the correct drivers for Windows 11.

Otherwise, did you configure anything special in the CPU advanced settings? I heard about some issues if Enable NUMA is enabled.

Is there any process that consumes 100% CPU? You could try to show us a list of all processes sorted by CPU usage.


EDIT: I created a page for Windows 11, so now I'm linking to the correct wiki page for Windows 11.
 
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Hey guys, sorry for jumping in like this instead of creating a new post. I just wanted to let you know that I experienced the exact same thing.
I was messing around with gpu passthrough and followed a guide where I had to select "host" as the CPU type. The same evening I had a long power outage, followed by a problem with my ISP and I was unable to finish everything. Fast forward 4 days and I couldn't remember what I was doing. I just noticed that my Windows VM's performance is inacceptable. Speedtests where only showing wonky 250-350Mbit/s down instead of ~1080Mbit/s I normally get (2.5Gbit/s router/switch). My CPU-Z Benchmark was showing 3200 points instead of ~4600 points etc. After much troubleshooting I found this comment under a reddit post saying that changing from "host" to "x86-64-v2-AES" makes a big difference and yeah, they were right. Although some things are not up the the recommended settings linked in the post above, the VM is now really snappy again. Basically bare metal speeds.

Here's a small clip I made showing my settings and the issue: https://s.miepz.de/QORA6/POTuFoQo33.mp4/raw
(please remove the link if that's not allowed and I'll try to upload it directly)

I'm not planning on passing my GPU through anymore or changing any settings at all because, never touch a running system. And for what I'm doing with this server, the performance is good enough. I just wanted to step in saying that they're not the only person with this problem.
In case it matters, here are my specs:

Minis Forum UN1290
Intel Core i9 12900HK
32 GB RAM
1TB NVMe PCIe Gen4 SSD (KINGSTON OM8PGP41024Q-A0)
2.5Gbit/s LAN

PVE 8.3.4
Windows Server 2025 with all updates (as of 03.03.2025)

Btw the same thing was happening on my Minis Forum NAB9 with nearly identical specs, just a 1TB SATA drive instead of NVMe.

Best Regards
derMiepz
 
We have experienced the same issue with "host" CPU type. I'd have to look back at my upgrade dates, but I think coincides with one of the 8.2.X upgrades (and possibly 24H2). Windows 11 Pro VMs were becoming unusable in cases until the CPU type was changed to "x86-64-v2-AES". It certainly seems like there is an issue here and I'd be happy to spin up test VMs to help troubleshoot.
 
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DAE51D said:
I am shocked to discover what seems absolutely counter-intuitive to me, but maybe someone can explain me?

I have a stock Win11 24H2 and I initially set it up with x86-64-v2-AES and it was zipping along as one would expect.

View attachment 79185

[...]
View attachment 79189

And one more sanity test, I powered down. Set back to "x86-64-v2-AES" and it's zippy fast again. ?!?!?
Click to expand...
First pic x86-64-v2-AES : Windows detects VM (Virtual machine = Yes) so no nested Hyper-V running (required for VBS )
Second pic "host" : Windows doesn't detect VM ( Virtualisation = Enabled ) suggest Hyper-V or WSL enabled within Windows guest and/or optionnal args used ( hidden=off or kvm=off )

Windows 24H2 use/active Hyper-V and so, nested Hyper-V, for its Virtualization-based Security (VBS).
Check VBS state from msinfo32.exe , at the bottom of the first page.

Nested Hyper-V is slow , even slow on olders CPUs , even more with mitigations enabled.
 
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related findings :
K

Thread 'The Reasons for poor performance of Windows when the CPU type is host'

Hey guys, I did some experiments recently and I think I finally found out why Windows performs poorly when the CPU type is host. You can check the complete experiment process and conclusion in my blog (Chinese, use google translate!)

In short, the experiment finally found that the reason was that the two flags md_clear and flush_l1d caused performance problems. They would activate the CPU vulnerability mitigation measures of Windows, which would cause a significant increase in memory read latency, thus causing Windows to freeze.

The two flags md_clear and flush_l1d are not passed...
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Same isssue. Setting CPU type to host is a nightmare for Windows 10, 11 and Windows Server 2025. I have tried installing and uninstalling virtio drivers for several times without a success!

Solution: Switching to either x86-64-v2-AES, x86-64-v3 or the specific CPU codename does make all Windows virtual machines work as normal again.

I have no idea if the problem happens to other OS types. Hope that Proxmox will fix it soon!
 
smecio said:
I have no idea if the problem happens to other OS types. Hope that Proxmox will fix it soon!
Click to expand...
If you set the CPU type to x86-64-v3, Windows recognizes that it is a VM.
Because of that, some CPU mitigations are not active.

If you set it to host, Windows does recognize that it is a VM.
Because of that, some CPU mitigations are active.

So I doubt that Proxmox will be able to fix that.

There are IMHO only two options:
- Use x86-64-v3 or whatever version your CPU supports. This comes with almost no disadvantages
- Find out how to disable these mitigations*


* I did not try this, but you should be able to go to Windows features and uncheck
- Microsoft Defender Application Guard
- Virtual machine Platform
- Windows Hypervisor Platform
 
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Would love to know if there is any further info on this as i just discovered this myself while setting up a new production server to replace a gaming setup, could not work out why on the current setup of vmware it was using 0.1% cpu on the game server and on proxmox that was 3-5% - this was on an idle game instance with no people!
 
Good morning and sorry for my English,

I'm currently testing Windows 11 under "x86-64-v2-AES."

I first installed Windows 11 with CPU type "Host" and then switched back.
Generally speaking, it's running very well so far.
Windows 11 is currently rolling out feature updates...we'll see. ;-)
 
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thoe said:
Good morning and sorry for my English,

I'm currently testing Windows 11 under "x86-64-v2-AES."

I first installed Windows 11 with CPU type "Host" and then switched back.
Generally speaking, it's running very well so far.
Windows 11 is currently rolling out feature updates...we'll see. ;-)
Click to expand...
Hello,
Try x86-64-v3-AES if you has modern CPU from 2015 to now.
 
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