Proxmox on aarch64 (arm64)

[Johannes S]

Ugh. That sounds absolutely horrible for troubleshooting/debugging any problems that occur.

On the other hand together with it's immutable state it should make tampering though bad actors a lot harder.

The same approach is used by kubernetes distribution talos and less extremely TrueNAS ( the latter still has ssh though, talos has not, both expect users to use the api or tools/uis based on the UI) so I can see the appeal from a devops perspective. Personally I prefer the flexibility of ProxmoxVE. Like always: Pick your poison

 

[justinclift]

less extremely TrueNAS

Um, as you mention TrueNAS does have ssh, so it's very much not the same as these things that can't be accessed.

Also, am kind of curious why you'd say not having ssh is a feature for DevOps? How are you expecting DevOps staff to diagnose problems if they don't even have shell access? Maybe these things have terminal/console/tty access instead, which would do effectively the same thing in a pinch...?

 

[Johannes S]

Um, as you mention TrueNAS does have ssh, so it's very much not the same as these things that can't be accessed.

Yes, but the TrueNAS documentation clearly states that you are expected not to alter the system but use the API, the WebUI or the TrueNAS specific cli tools. So although you can use ssh it's less powerful than on a classical Unix box (since you can't do much on the system). Whether this is a good thing or not, depends on your point of view
My point concerning devops is that if you happen to be a former developer who somehow ended up in devops it's very appealing to do everyting with an API and a debug channel (maybe prometheus metrics or an endpoint for syslogs), because that is what you are used to. For sysadmins (which I am and I suspect you too) who are used to do everything via ssh the lack of ssh is an antifeature

 

[justinclift]

Heh Heh Heh. The good developers i know (and work with) very much understand how to use ssh and a shell effectively. Doing everything over an API (etc) is just such a huge waste of time/effort for debugging system problems.

But yeah, I could see how juniors who don't know the fundamentals might not understand the value.