Urgent suggestion: Tteck Scripts for Proxmox

[adrymax]

Hello

I wanted to take a moment to express my appreciation for the incredible work your team does in developing Proxmox. and this what encourge me suggest this idea.

One of the most valuable tools in the Proxmox ecosystem, for myself and many others, is the Tteck scripts. These scripts play a crucial role in enhancing the usability of Linux Containers (LXCs), making their creation and management much more efficient.

After reading Tteck’s recent announcement regarding the future of the scripts (found here: Tteck Announcement), I felt a profound sense of concern for both Tteck and this invaluable project. Losing access to these invaluable tools would be a setback for many in the community.

I would like to propose that the Proxmox team consider maintaining and supervising this project. Alternatively, forking it. Then create a community-driven project. I believe that Tteck would welcome any support in ensuring that his work continues to thrive.

Creating a collaborative community project around the Tteck scripts could enhance the Proxmox experience for current users and attract new ones also. For me it's a life saver.

I imagine that when I create a container inside Proxmox I will be get a list of available containers (tteck's) so I could choose one to install. Later I can right click any container to update it. This will be amazing !

Thank you for considering this suggestion.

 

[LnxBil]

I would like to propose that the Proxmox team consider maintaining and supervising this project. Alternatively, forking it. Then create a community-driven project. I believe that Tteck would welcome any support in ensuring that his work continues to thrive.

There is no upside to this for PVE. It they would want something like that, they would've imlemented it already. There are Turnkey Templates already.
The tteck repository has already been community-outsourced: https://github.com/community-scripts/ProxmoxVE

Yet I don't know if the name can stay, this is outlined in the Proxmox Media Kit.

I imagine that when I create a container inside Proxmox I will be get a list of available containers (tteck's) so I could choose one to install. Later I can right click any container to update it. This will be amazing !

Maybe you should look into Docker, which is much better suited for such setups. The data is (often) seperated from the container, so that is can be updated directly. This is container orchestration and not the goal of PVE, which is a Intrastructure-as-a-service provider. Those those paradigms live on different stack layers.

 

[leesteken]

Please count the threads about "my VM restart every 5 minutes" and see how much time it takes for volunteers on this forum to troubleshoot strange behavior until the OP confesses that they forgot that they ran some tteck script (and they don't know that it does). I think it's a good idea that they are properly supported, either by becoming a standard part of PVE or by the people that created them. After wasting a lot of time, I tend to the latter but thanks for bringing this up.

 

[adrymax]

There is no upside to this for PVE. It they would want something like that, they would've imlemented it already. There are Turnkey Templates already.
The tteck repository has already been community-outsourced: https://github.com/community-scripts/ProxmoxVE

Yet I don't know if the name can stay, this is outlined in the Proxmox Media Kit.

Most of the people I know don't like Turnkey templates, instead they use tteck's !
I am sure they will like it so much if they found it integrated into Proxmox in a simple and fast way (or something like it), for proxmox they make the infrastructure and let users build and maintain what they want.

Maybe you should look into Docker, which is much better suited for such setups. The data is (often) seperated from the container, so that is can be updated directly. This is container orchestration and not the goal of PVE, which is a Intrastructure-as-a-service provider. Those those paradigms live on different stack layers.

If there is a native support/integration for docker inside ProxmoxIt will be so great and I will go for it.
Separation of data from the container is a big plus also.
My point is: this is something 1) a lot of people/companies need 2) nobody can do it other than Proxmox 3) it is a big plus for users and will attract more clients.

 

[Johannes S]

Most of the people I know don't like Turnkey templates, instead they use tteck's !
I am sure they will like it so much if they found it integrated into Proxmox in a simple and fast way (or something like it), for proxmox they make the infrastructure and let users build and maintain what they want

But the question is: "Which users?" Sorry to be blunt: Turnkey templates and helper scripts are mostly for homelabbers. Now nothing against homelabbers (I'm a homelabber myself) but I agree with Lnxbil: There is nothing to gain for Proxmox. First as a business they make their money not from homelabbers but companys who actually pay for subscriptions. Second from a technical point of view users of the helper scripts tend to use them as "run and forget" so they don't need to bother with actually learning how to administrate their containers or vms. Then when they start to run into problems (like the one leesteeken mentioned) they come calling for support because they don't know what they are actually doing. Why should it be considered a good idea to help people who don't bother to learn the tools they are using? This will take resources from work which would actually benefit the company, the product and the community. With other words: Any time invested in maintaining "hellish scripts" is better invested in developing and supporting the actual products (Proxmox VE, Proxmox Backup Server, Proxmox Mail Gateway).
Obviouvsly I only speak for myself not for the community as a whole or Proxmox Server Solutions (since I'm not staff but also just a homelabber using their product without paying for it thanks to their generosity).
That being said: I have a lot of respect in the work and time tteck invested in his scripts and wish nothing but the best for him in his (sadly) final days. I also wish the new maintainers much sucess with the project.
But I also hope that they will put more effort in telling people, that you should only use helper scripts if you have an understanding how they work and that you still need to have basic understanding of system administration to use them.

If there is a native support/integration for docker inside ProxmoxIt will be so great and I will go for it.

There is none and as far I know there is also none planned since like LnxBil pointed out Proxmox VE provides a product for Infrastructure as a service not container orchestration. Let's try a (bad) comparision: ProxmoxVE is kind like a multi-purpose house: You can setup a lot of flats in it, a lot of office space, some little shops or any mixture of these. For actually doing the setup (aka running docker, HomeAssistant) for your flat, your shop or your office you will still need to buy the furniture and hire some craftmen for preparing your space for your intended usage.
Again: This is just my personal opinion, but it matches with previous discussions on Docker Support in ProxmoxVE:
https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/docker-support-in-proxmox.27474/

If you want to run docker, you could use Proxmox and prepare a VM of Debian/Ubuntu/whatever Linux you like and installing docker or podman afterwards together with DockGE or portainer for administration.

If you just want a ready to use solution for your homeserver you are propably better off with unraid, OpenMediaVault (plus docker plugin) or unraid (depending on your usecase, budget and hardware).

My point is: this is something 1) a lot of people/companies need 2) nobody can do it other than Proxmox 3) it is a big plus for users and will attract more clients.

I doubt that a lot of companys are interested in using some helper scripts to setup their environment. Companys normally have IT staff or a managed service provider which will do the work for them. For example at my own workspace we are not allowed to even download stuff on our servers from the internet, any install/update goes through a mirror/gateway or jump server. Any expectation needs to be allowed by the Security Manager. If I tell him that I want to download and directly run a script to install some stuff from the internet he will (rightfully!) block it and ask why I need a script to do my job. I also doubt that invested development resources in helper scripts will attract more clients.
Most companys at the moment are interested in Proxmox simple because they don't want to pay for the obscene raised costs of Vmware thanks to Broadcom. Since Vmware doesn't have containers and many of it's users run windows vms it's unlikely that a feature for setting up lxc containers is of much interest to them. They will be more likely to switch to ProxmoxVE if some missing features from Vmware will be implemented.
And it's not true, that nobody can do it. tteck did this the last years without any support from Proxmox Server Solutions, I'm sure that the new community project will do it at well (maybe even better in terms of documentation so less people run into issues from running scripts without understanding them).