[Request] Floppy Image Support

[thtanner]

I would love to see proper floppy image support when creating KVM VMs. When installing things like XP or XP64, it is required to load the VirtIO HDD drivers via a floppy image. Sadly, the drivers do not integrate properly into the Windows installation, so the only solution is to start the VM temporarily via console with the floppy image attached for the installation. It would be nice to see this added to the GUI. I know this was added as a to-do all the way back in 2008, but it never came to fruition under 1.x.

Thanks a bunch!

 

[tom]

winxp is too outdated. as a workaround, install with IDE and RTL NIC and change afterwards to virtio, using the drivers from the ISO image.

 

[thtanner]

winxp is too outdated. as a workaround, install with IDE and RTL NIC and change afterwards to virtio, using the drivers from the ISO image.

Thanks for the response. In the corporate world, Windows Server 2003 (shares installation with xp/xp64) is all too common. It may be out-dated, but it's what a large number of enterprises run, and I would think the Virtualization Environment would support such a demand. Realistically, the amount of work to include this functionality is very minimal. It's just adding some minor GUI elements for the Hardware tab, and allowing vfd's to be uploaded via the Content tab.

The best work-around currently is to install with a vfd containing the drivers, by simply adding -fda /path/to/your/img.vfd to the vm, and launching it manually via terminal. I made a backup of the VM at this point and just restore it via qmrestore --storage drbdsdb vzdump-qemu-xxx.lzo NEWVMID when I need a new 2003 instance. Reference: http://c-nergy.be/blog/?p=1032

I still urge you to reconsider adding this on the VE 2 to-do list. Limitations like this are what prevent larger enterprises (like the one I work for) from migrating from VMWare or other products.

 

[dietmar]

I still urge you to reconsider adding this on the VE 2 to-do list. Limitations like this are what prevent larger enterprises (like the one I work for) from migrating from VMWare or other products.

Why don't you simply send a patch? A large enterprise (like the one you work for) should have enough resources to do that work ('the amount of work to include this functionality is very minimal') or sponsor that work.

 

[andydills]

It's odd, I've only been around this forum a few weeks, but it seems like the attitude of the Proxmox team could be summed up as:

"If you want to suggest ways to improve Proxmox, don't bother. Do it yourself. We're not interested in your suggestions, regardless of how good they are, or how much work it would take us to implement."

Perhaps it's a culture/language barrier, but I think that attitude is going to prevent more businesses from getting invested in proxmox than the need for a floppy drive.

 

[dietmar]

I
Perhaps it's a culture/language barrier, but I think that attitude is going to prevent more businesses from getting invested in proxmox than the need for a floppy drive.

I have just suggested that you help to implement that feature - whats wrong with that?

 

[andydills]

Well, in fairness, there is nothing wrong with the suggestion (I'm not the original poster, just chiming in).

I'm just trying to explain what I understand of large corporations...they will pay for support (in fact often times will exclude open source solutions from lack of official support), but they are very unlikely to sponsor development of the product to get it to do what they need. They will instead purchase the product that already does what they need, and pay for support. There's a lot of grey area, because the people making decisions are often not the people who evaluate the products and make the recommendations.

So, if perhaps you had said "If your large corporation signs up for a support contract, we'd be happy to add this feature" you would at least appear more willing to work with that type of customer.

 

[dietmar]

So, if perhaps you had said "If your large corporation signs up for a support contract, we'd be happy to add this feature" you would at least appear more willing to work with that type of customer.

A support contract does not include custom development. Anyways, I am quite happy to add any feature - we just need to schedule resources on that (which usually introduce costs).

Note: there is a complex relationship between features, money and happiness ;-)

 

[andydills]

Note: there is a complex relationship between features, money and happiness ;-)

Indeed!

Fortunately for me, proxmox is currently meeting all three of those needs for me. I'm just really impressed with the project and want to see it become the "industry favored" solution, must like how Wietse did with postfix a decade ago, and Timo did with dovecot several years back.

 

[tom]

the "culture" is called Open Source development and we live in a capitalistic economy - sometime people forget about both.

as no one has to pay for the software (as its aGPLv3), the development needs to be paid from someone else (most times from people who benefits from the software).

and as the "paying people" does not need floppy support, no one implemented it so far. just that easy. why should someone pay to develop a feature for someone else business?
WinXP/2003 is out of support very soon, also there is an great working workaround for the mentioned issue. so this feature looks really not that interesting to me.

But as Dietmar already mentioned, you don´t have to pay for it, you can also just contribute the code. isn´t that quite cool? we offered two ways to get it in but this is still not enough for you?

We love feedback and suggestions but this does not mean we are idiots and implement everything for everybody - we do integrate code very carefully and keep the project clean, stable and future-proof. that why a lot of people love Proxmox VE and your summary about our attitude is just completely wrong.

 

[thtanner]

I will be looking elsewhere for our virtualization solution. Tom's attitude was far from helpful, and andydills was right. They obviously did not care that I was planning to run a support subscription, and that I wanted to ensure it fully suited my needs prior to shelling out the cash. Not everyone has a team of developers on staff that can contribute to a project like this (and maintain the quality of code they'd want). It's also a feature request that comes up quite often, just do a forum search. It doesn't personally interest him, so I guess it's not a valid suggestion.

We love feedback and suggestions but this does not mean we are idiots and implement everything for everybody

However, you seem to be grossly negative no matter what is posted. The attitude you display is abhorrent, and you really should look into correcting it as you represent a company, and a commercial service, not just an open source project. Your attitude drove away my support contract, and I wonder what other business has been lost due to it?

 

[dietmar]

However, you seem to be grossly negative no matter what is posted.

You obviously think we should work for you for free, and if we do not you called that 'grossly negative' and talk about bad attitude. A really strange view of the world.

 

[dietmar]

Not everyone has a team of developers on staff that can contribute to a project like this (and maintain the quality of code they'd want).

You can also sponsor a feature using money.

 

[dietmar]

However, you seem to be grossly negative no matter what is posted. The attitude you display is abhorrent

I am sure you have read my 9.680 postings in this forum ;-)

 

[andydills]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the words you post and the way that people perceive them. He is not the first person to talk about the proxmox team's "attitude", in fact I was just having a conversation with a colleague the other day about proxmox and he said "Yeah, the product is great, but the people who develop it are incredibly rude. If that's the way they communicate in public, imagine how rude they will be when they already have your money." I played the role of apologist, and tried to attribute it to cultural and language differences, but he wasn't buying it.

If you were only doing an open source project, and had no financial interest in this, you would have no motivation to present a more considered public persona.

However, you are attempting to profit from proxmox (rightfully so, I might add), so it would seem to behoove you to have a little more tact and communicate a little more politely. Of course, it's your business, and you should run it how you see fit.

Consider pfsense. Very similar situation: a company organizing open source software into an easily used, easily configured package, so they can ultimately profit from the support of it. Yet, they have a completely different attitude, and a much stronger community involvement as a result.

I don't think he's asking you to "work for him for free". You guys are the developers of this product. He's not asking for some obscure feature. You seem to forget that one of the most popular uses for virtualization is to allow you to take legacy systems and abstract them from the hardware, so the idea that because "windows 2003 is almost EOL", people shouldn't have a need to attach a floppy drive to a virtual machine, is pretty narrow-minded. I was in a shop the other day that had a stack of Windows NT VM's running (vmware).

Just some food for thought.

 

[dietmar]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the words you post and the way that people perceive them. He is not the first person to talk about the proxmox team's "attitude", in fact I was just having a conversation with a colleague the other day about proxmox and he said "Yeah, the product is great, but the people who develop it are incredibly rude.

I repeat what I suggested: "Why don't you simply send a patch?"

I can't really help you if you think that is "incredible rude".

 

[thtanner]

You obviously think we should work for you for free, and if we do not you called that 'grossly negative' and talk about bad attitude. A really strange view of the world.

dietmar: If you would re-read my post, it is not the fact you are not 'working for free' that is the frustration, but the negative attitude displayed towards feature suggestions and end-users.

I think you missed the point, by far.

 

[dietmar]

I guess we should stop this thread now.