PVE and PBS on same computer : disks management?

[Thatoo]

Hello,

I have a computer which have currently 4 HDD of 8TB each but I may be able to add one SSD to it.
I want to install a PVE for pre-production that I would use during the day and a PBS that would receive backup from prod computer at night.
I wonder if I should either :
- install PVE and PBS on a 1 TB RAID 10 (on 4 HDD) ZFS rpool and create a 15 TB RAID 10 (on the same 4 HDD) ZFS datastore to store PBS backups?
- or add an SSD on which I would install PVE AND PBS and create a 16 TB RAID 10 (on the 4 HDD) ZFS datastore to store PBS backups?

I wonder :
- is it possible to have two ZFS pool on the 4 same HDD and what happen when one of the HDD will die? Can I replace it as easily as I do when I have only one ZFS pool on 4 HDD?
- if I add the SSD and I have only one ZFS pool on the 4 HDD, then I know how to replace it, but how to handle pve and pbs installation when the SSD will die and I will have to replace it. Can I simply change the SSD, make a new install of PVE and PBS on the new SSD and attach back the exisitng datastore on the RAID 10 ZFS pool?

 

[Thatoo]

One last wonder that might solve everything. Is it possible to use PVE's 16TB ZFS RAID 10 rpool as a datastore in PBS?
Like that I have only one ZFS zpool of 16 TB on which I install PVE and PBS, somme testing VM and the datastore too.

 

[_gabriel]

if Windows :
Remember Windows is slow on HDD.
Worst as VM on ZFS "Raid10" on 4x HDD.

Storing backups on same disks as source isn't really a backup, or maybe can be called "backup only if human error" :-/ moreover restoring data from PBS to same disks will require many many many time, as PBS wants iops not sequential speed. backup will be slow too but thanks to dirty map and dedup will be mitigated which give false hope.

(sorry for wording)

 

[Thatoo]

No, it's not for windows.

Again, PVE would be used only for testing and pre prod VM so I won't backup them and PBS will get backup from other PVE from other remote computers.

 

[Thatoo]

I'd say that the main usage is PBS and PVE is secondary. I think pbs will be use mostly during night so I was wondering who I can use this computer during the day and that's how I got the idea to use it for test and preprod VM.

 

[Neobin]

One last wonder that might solve everything. Is it possible to use PVE's 16TB ZFS RAID 10 rpool as a datastore in PBS?
Like that I have only one ZFS zpool of 16 TB on which I install PVE and PBS, somme testing VM and the datastore too.

A PBS datastore is nothing more than a directory.
So, sure, you can simply create a new directory or, what I would highly recommend, a dataset, which you use (exclusively) for the/a datastore.

 

[leesteken]

I always run PBS as a (small and unprivileged Debian) container on PVE (and it can backup itself while running, except for the datastore). That way, I can easily give it access to a mounted storage directory on the physical server using a lxc.mount.entry: in the container configuration file (so PVE does not know about it and it does not delete it on a restore).

 

[Thatoo]

or, what I would highly recommend, a dataset

I tried to look for it in PBS GUI and could not find how to create a "dataset". Could you give me some detail how to do so?

And @Neobin what do you think of leesteken solution?

 

[Neobin]

I tried to look for it in PBS GUI and could not find how to create a "dataset". Could you give me some detail how to do so?

CLI only:
zfs create YourPool/YourNewDataset
https://openzfs.github.io/openzfs-docs/man/master/8/zfs-create.8.html

And @Neobin what do you think of leesteken solution?

I do not use LXCs at all, nor have I tested PBS in one; therefore I can not comment on this option.

One thing you need to keep in mind with PBS being installed alongside PVE is, that a new major version of PBS gets usually released some days after a new major PVE version.
Since a new major version on every Proxmox product (at least the three main ones) means a new major Debian version, you need to wait with a major PVE upgrade (e.g.: 8 to 9) until the new major PBS version (e.g.: 4) got also released.
New major versions are usually released every two years (Debian stable release cycle); so imo not a big deal...

 

[zodiac]

I second the recommendation for running PBS as an LXC container. Works quite well and gives you all the benefits of managing a virtualized and light-weight system. Of course, you have to make sure you have a plan for what to do if you need to restore your data, if your PVE ever becomes inoperable. But with a little bit of advance planning that's not super difficult to set up.

I also recommend having at least one additional node that runs a mirror of the PBS server. That dramatically improves the odds that you can recover easily after a system failure.