Proxmox VE RAID, naming conventions, etc

J

jbayer

New Member
May 31, 2011
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Hi,

I've written a blog entry about my experiences with Proxmox VE. I also have written several scripts, which are included with the blog entry.

The entry covers the following subjects:
Initial install
Setting up a cluster
Convert server to RAID-1
Template Naming Conventions
Installing a Lucid container
Installing a RedHat, Centos or Scientific Linux container
Add additional storage to Proxmox VE
Available templates
​
The blog is at:
I hope this helps someone.

JBB
 
I just can´t agree to your intro, its just wrong for me.

"...RAID is absolutely critical in a production environment, and given the low costs of hardware these days, there is no excuse not to protect your systems with a minimal RAID 1 setup."

We never recommend a system without raid, so this statement and argumentation is not right.

I mean you state that hardware is cheap these days but then you do not buy a simple server with hardware raid? You should point this out in your blog, otherwise its misleading.
And yes, as we are debian based softraid is possible, like you wrote in your blog - but not supported in our commercial support subscription.
 
True hardware raid is not cheap. Inexpensive hardware raid is usually a firmware-based software raid, which is not necessarily supported by Linux.

For many smaller companies, adding a second drive and setting it up in a RAID-1 setup is usually the least expensive.

What about a small company which decides to repurpose a system? It is easy to add drives, not so easy or inexpensive to add a true hardware raid controller.

I realize and acknowledge that you don't support Linux-based software raid, I'll revise my blog and put that in. I'll also put a line in regarding hardware raid. However, for most applications, software raid is more than adequate.

Your statement: "We never recommend a system without raid, so this statement and argumentation is not right.", doesn't invalidate my comments and opinion. I'm glad that you never recommend a system without raid, but what about people who just download the Proxmox VE ISO and build their own systems? You also seem to assume that Proxmox VE will only be installed on new servers. Again, what about small companies which decide to repurpose a system?

I stand by my statements.
 
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You need to talk about TCO for several years instead of just the initial price of a server. And its quite a good idea to use a new server for virtualization instead of old ones. in almost all cases.

A small example:
If you configure Raid10 you will need at least 4 disks and as I assume most people will run cheap SATA disks its more or less guaranteed that some disks will fail during live-time of the server (~ 3 to 5 years).

A small company does not have a Linux technician and therefore they need to pay someone external to change the disk and rebuild the raid, but also some just do not even realize that they got a failed disk. As softraid does not really support reliable hotswap and led notification there is always a risk to replace the wrong disk. Some statistics says that overall its better to run a single driver instead of softraid.

Hardware raid:
Also non-technician can replace a faulty disks ("just take the one with the red light"), with no downtime, hotswap.

So if you are experienced Linux user or if you life in regions where working time is cheap, softraid can be fine for you and can use it. But for the rest its by far better and cheaper to go for a real server hardware with raid.
And don´t forget the performance.
 
I'm sorry, I didn't mean this to be a flame war.

I'm not disputing any of your statements. Yes, in an ideal world you would look at the total TCO. As well, a non-tech can easily replace a failed drive in a hardware raid array.

However, try looking at it from another angle. The company I work for is a good example. We are a Linux company, all of our products run on Linux, and we sell Linux servers to our customers. We support them (several hundred), and have proper reporting set up to notify us of any failures. Our customers are small mom&pop companies who rely upon us for the system support. They know enough to use the systems, but don't have or want to spend any more money than possible. They usually have a support contract with us as well. For us, while it seems counter-intuitive, the additional cost of a hardware raid controller is a significant portion of the purchase price, and these customers can't or won't look at the total TCO over the lifetime of the system; they are concerned with the daily costs, and any extra money spent is money not in their pockets.

In this case, we do very well with software raid. I'm sure there are others who have similar stories.

All of your points are valid, for medium to large customers. However, in many cases with small customers, the points that I make are equally valid.
 
but why do you criticize the missing softraid options in our ISO installer and on the other side you tell that everything is working in your situation?

Its just an extra complexity in the initial setup which we eliminate. Keeping things simple is one of our biggest success factors - but still flexible as your post shows how to use softraid.
 
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