New to Proxmox..

[rocket5618]

Hey guys, hope you're all well!

A while back I used to run a small operation using Nutanix, but it became far too costly to run, and their support were eventually insistent upon forcing upgrades in return for retaining support. Not only was this risky (imo) but it led to quite a few major issues, which isn't good on live client Servers! The expense was far too high, and it just ended up not viable for a small business so I moved on..

Recently I became aware of this system, and it looks fantastic. I've watched lots of videos, but I had a few questions for those upselling this as hosting, and willing to assist:

* Can you create isolated remote access, i.e. to an internal IT admin, in order for them to mount ISOs and upgrade their own virtual machines?
* For those with Standard support subscriptions, are you able to indefinitely run on the same version and still receive support? (I don't want to keep being forced to upgrade live systems when they're running perfectly fine, aside from SERIOUS vulnerabilities)
* How reliable is the failover in a 3 node cluster, and how fast will it fail over should a node go down? Is it also easy enough to force replication once the third node is back in operation?


Thanks!

 

[leesteken]

* For those with Standard support subscriptions, are you able to indefinitely run on the same version and still receive support? (I don't want to keep being forced to upgrade live systems when they're running perfectly fine, aside from SERIOUS vulnerabilities)

I almost absolutely sure that the answer is no: https://pve.proxmox.com/pve-docs/chapter-pve-faq.html#faq-support-table . But you need to ask Proxmox sales office or the partner that you (intend to) use to a definite answer.

* ..., and how fast will it fail over should a node go down?

At least one minute: https://pve.proxmox.com/pve-docs/pve-admin-guide.html#ha_manager_fencing

EDIT: Regarding how reliable it works, you can set it up (with all features) for free and test your work-loads and scenarios yourself to make sure it lives up to your expectations.

 

[alexskysilk]

Can you create isolated remote access, i.e. to an internal IT admin, in order for them to mount ISOs and upgrade their own virtual machines?

yes. see https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/User_Management#pveum_permission_management

For those with Standard support subscriptions, are you able to indefinitely run on the same version and still receive support? (I don't want to keep being forced to upgrade live systems when they're running perfectly fine, aside from SERIOUS vulnerabilities)

you will not be DENIED support, but the first answer to any issue would be "make all cluster members the same version." This isnt unique to Nutanix or Proxmox; its just the design criteria of the software- more to the point, consider running nodes of different major point release in the same cluster NOT supportable. Having said that, be aware that the PVE version support cycle isnt very long lived; see https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/proxmox-ve-support-lifecycle.35755/ so expect to be more hands on for the lifespan of your environment- be prepared to lab major point release upgrades.

How reliable is the failover in a 3 node cluster, and how fast will it fail over should a node go down?

As reliable as your environment, and as fast as the network and storage topologies allow. 60-90sec is common with proper shared storage. since you're coming from Nutanix I assume you intend to use ceph- make sure to familiarize yourself with how it works and how to get optimal results. This forum has very good resources available for you for that- you can start here: https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/fabu-can-i-use-ceph-in-a-_very_-small-cluster.159671/

Is it also easy enough to force replication once the third node is back in operation?

It depends on what you mean, and what storage solution you deploy. Cluster metadata will automatically synchronize when a node rejoins the cluster, and storage (assuming ceph) will automatically redistribute any pending writes back to any OSDs are they return to the cluster. It is transparent to the user.

 

[rocket5618]

I almost absolutely sure that the answer is no: https://pve.proxmox.com/pve-docs/chapter-pve-faq.html#faq-support-table . But you need to ask Proxmox sales office or the partner that you (intend to) use to a definite answer.

At least one minute: https://pve.proxmox.com/pve-docs/pve-admin-guide.html#ha_manager_fencing

EDIT: Regarding how reliable it works, you can set it up (with all features) for free and test your work-loads and scenarios yourself to make sure it lives up to your expectations.

Thanks for the detailed and honest response. The part about having to be more hands on with this over Nutanix, kind of halts it in its track. I was hoping it was going to be more of a, once set up just let it be to run itself (of course, aside from Hardware maintenance when required, which would be taken care of under warranty).

As this wouldn't be a singular financial income and plenty of other responsibility, it sounds like it would require more time and dedication than I anticipated. Ah well..

Thanks again for your reply, I'm glad I asked

 

[leesteken]

I was hoping it was going to be more of a, once set up just let it be to run itself (of course, aside from Hardware maintenance when required, which would be taken care of under warranty).

You can setup a current version of Proxmox, for free or with a support plan, and never update it afterwards. If this is what you want (and I would suggest air-gapped hosts in that case) then you can do that but don't expect much support for this eventual old setup nor any support for new containers or new hardware (when you cannot replace the old hardware with identical parts anymore) nor security fixes (from Debian or Proxmox).
Nobody here, and neither Proxmox with it's open-source license, is forcing you to buy a support contract. But also, nobody is obliged to support your specific setup unconditionally or for an unlimited time.

 

[UdoB]

...and never update it afterwards.

My blood runs cold... ;-)

 

[leesteken]

My blood runs cold... ;-)

I would not recommend it either, but maybe it's not clear to @rocket5618 that Proxmox with all it's features is free to run (and to run forever)? And maybe all of this is a misunderstanding about having to keep paying (and updating), which are both voluntary (but go hand in hand)?
Of course, enough people need to support Proxmox developing and maintaining the software...

 

[Vorl]

Thanks for the detailed and honest response. The part about having to be more hands on with this over Nutanix, kind of halts it in its track. I was hoping it was going to be more of a, once set up just let it be to run itself (of course, aside from Hardware maintenance when required, which would be taken care of under warranty).

As this wouldn't be a singular financial income and plenty of other responsibility, it sounds like it would require more time and dedication than I anticipated. Ah well..

Thanks again for your reply, I'm glad I asked

This is absolutely the wrong attitude for anything in IT. Why are you ok with having to do updates to keep hardware warranty and not update software for support? This seems very backwards.

Now the real issue isn't that you need to do updates, the issue is how bad are those updates.

I worked with nutanix for a while under and enterprise contract and nutanix absolutely and completely sucks for updates and support. There is better support in these forums that we had with paid support under nutanix. Their upgrades were just garbage and instead of fixing their upgrades they required each customer to do manual work around's on site to get things to work. We had 15-20 clusters 5-10 nodes each and each upgrade we had we always had to get support involved because a node would fail to reboot properly, or something for at least 1-3 clusters.

by contrast proxmox minor updates are easy and just a quick apt update I have never had an issue.

Major updates are still a sucky process for proxmox but not as sucky as nutanix. The issues with the major updates are that proxmox still thinks homelab and expects people to go editing repositories and such. Its super dumb. If you do proper testing and validation in a lab you can set these up in a playbook and they are pretty reliable. It's just a dumb management decision to force people to do updates manually instead of providing a script that does what any enterprise level product does automatically.

For the record I don't consider nutanix enterprise ready, their whole platform is still basically in beta imo. They have potential to be great, they just don't care enough to make a good product.

Proxmox is almost enterprise ready imo. Once they figure out a few things like their upgrade scripts and being able to change an IP on the cluster they will be there. Proxmox is very solid and has a lot to recommend it.

 

[alexskysilk]

was hoping it was going to be more of a, once set up just let it be to run itself

That doesnt apply to ANY software applicable to an internet connected device. Security vulnerabilities are constantly identified, exploited, and patched in a never ending cat and mouse game. Moreover, a hypervisor is complex and problems are constantly identified and patched. Updating isnt optional.

of course, aside from Hardware maintenance when required, which would be taken care of under warranty

Only if you tell them to. If you dont monitor your hardware it can fail and no one will do anything about it. Warranty covers the cost of repair/replacement.

As this wouldn't be a singular financial income and plenty of other responsibility, it sounds like it would require more time and dedication than I anticipated. Ah well..

You either do it yourself or pay someone else to. This is how all software works. tinstaafl.