DNS servers for hosting

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RenatoMN

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Oct 1, 2008
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Hi,

I'm thinking to ask Proxmox to be installed in a customer server that will be ordered next hours. We appreciate if this server is able to host at least 6 VPS or more if possible, and we're not intentioned to get more than 16 IPs (/28).

13 are usable, 1 is for main node, i suppose. Then we will have 12 assignable IPs. Using HyperVM we can assign 2 IPs each VPS, then we have exactly 6 VPS. Proxmox seems to assign only 1 IP per VPS. How can we setup the DNS then, in a way that VPS customers can use the 2 DNS/nameservers (preferable more than 6 VPS)?

On HyperVM we can create a small VPS with 1 IP, and use it as the secondary DNS IP, then we can create 11 VPS with only 1 IP (main DNS). Or even create the small VPS with 2 IPs, then both are used as DNS. We can allow the access to the users for the DNS server, the they can add/update DNS entries on this VPS, for their hosting customers, or we just set up custom DNS for the VPS customers, eliminating the need of this access.

On Proxmox, however, I don't know if we need to set up a VPS (or 2) to use as DNS for all other VPS or somewhat... may you provide me help?

Sorry the long text, I don't know how to explain it in a shorter way. Sorry my english, too.

Regards,
Renato
 
You can attach the new server installed with Proxmox VE to its own subnet with its own /28 on it and let the customer assign those IPs to their VPSes any way they want. One VPS with 10 IPs, 6 VPSes with 2 IPs each, whatever you and they prefer to do.

You can assign multiple IP addresses to an OpenVZ VPS using the command line "vzctl" utility. For example, to add your second IP address:
vzctl set 100 --ipadd 1.1.1.3 --save
(Where 100 would be the CTID of the VPS you're changing)

Or, I think you can also set it via the web interface by using commas to separate multiple IP addresses like so:
Virtual Network Addresses (venet)
IP Address: 1.1.1.2, 1.1.1.3


You don't need to install a recursive DNS server in every VPS or anywhere on that box at all, you can just have all of the VPSes use your normal main recursive DNS servers that you normally provide to customers. If you don't have any you provide, then you'll need to install a recursive resolving DNS server in one or two of the VPSes and use them for all the VPSes.
 
Hi, tog.

First of all, thanks for you reply :)

tog said:
You don't need to install a recursive DNS server in every VPS or anywhere on that box at all, you can just have all of the VPSes use your normal main recursive DNS servers that you normally provide to customers. If you don't have any you provide, then you'll need to install a recursive resolving DNS server in one or two of the VPSes and use them for all the VPSes.
Click to expand...

What do you mean with "normal main recursive DNS"? THen when I install Proxmox I will need to choose IPs to act as DNS? Interesting :) Then all VPSes can use these IPs as DNS... i understood it right?

Thanks again.
 
Well, whatever datacenter or Internet connectivity you've got, I assume you already have existing DNS servers you use to resolve DNS names on The Internet?

You can use these existing DNS servers for all of your VPSes, or you can install BIND (or your preferred DNS software) in one or two of the VPSes and use those VPSes as your DNS servers.

What I'm trying to say is a DNS server is a DNS server. Use existing ones you've already got available or create new ones inside VPSes and use those. Either way works.
 
Seems my english is not good enough to understand it perfectly...

See, when you order a dedicated server and will use it for hosting, you receive it with 3-5 IPs. 1 is set as main IP, 2 as DNS [and 2 as additional dns, for reseller, e.g.]. Then when you register a domain name, you put the 2 nameservers in (that point to the DNS IPs on the server). Server runs named (bind) for this, right?

When I create a VPS, the customer will install some control panel and add his main domain: which nameserver will they put at registrar panel, to correctly direct the domain name to his VPS? Does Proxmox set up something to act like a dns server? Or should I set up a DNS app, like named?

I'm afraid to go with Proxmox and make the wrong choice, as HyperVM - for what I read - can install LXAdmin in each VPS automatically, them LAMP+DNS come pre-installed. Considering 2 IPs for each VPS, I can do it too, install a Control Panel and done. But the point I'm trying to reach is a way to host more than 6 VPS (trying 10), using only 1 IP each final customer VPS.

Example: AlphaRed sell VPS with only 1 IP. Customer need to have another VPS with 1 IP and DNS running if want the necessary 2 DNS running to register a domain (pointing the domain to the AlphaRed too). The turn-around that can be made for those who use cPanel is set up a VPS with 1 IP acting as a DNS server, and the user configure WHM to share DNS info between this "main VPS" and his own VPS (a "trust-relationship"), then he have 2 IPs to use as nameserver: own IP = primary nameserver, plus the main VPS = secondary nameserver (or even use the main VPS as both primary+secondary, if it have 2 IPs). Having this "main VPS" with 1 IP will let me do 11 VPS for customers (or 10, if main VPS have 2 IPs).

The problem is I don't know if the free panels have this functionality...

If I not found a way to do this, maybe I go with Proxmox anyway, because I think LXAdmin doesn't have this functionality, then I will be limited to 6 VPS with HyperVM+LXAdmin too. Better 6 VPS on Proxmox that on HyperVM, as I want to learn more about it :)

I appreciate your time spent with this.

Regards,
Renato
 
Proxmox VE provides OpenVZ Linux or KVM-based virtual machines in a very nice convenient, tested and stable manner. They provide a great web interface to manage the OpenVZ and KVM containers and they release kernels and userland utilities for OpenVZ and KVM that they've extensively tested for us.

The end result is, you get to use lots of Linux VPSes and even Windows and FreeBSD VPSes if you want. You can set them up however you'd like. The VPSes will talk to each other over the network as if they were completely separate physical servers, so as you design your "server farm" you can just pretend they really are all separate physical servers.

Rest assured, Proxmox VE can use multiple IPs to an OpenVZ Linux VM or a KVM-based virtual machine. That is no problem at all. I have Plesk running inside a Debian 4.0 OpenVZ container with something like 20 IPs attached to it which Plesk can use for IP-based virtual hosting.

If you want to use WHM and cPanel, create an OpenVZ VPS using a CentOS 5 template. You will then have a clean new installation of CentOS 5, just install WHM/cPanel in it normally.

WHM/cPanel would provide you with the DNS server software and all the rest of the web server, mail server and database server software obviously.

If you want to avoid paying for additional licenses for a commercial product like WHM/cPanel (every separate VPS you install WHM/cPanel in might cost you a bit more money in licensing), you can assign 2 or more IPs to that one VPS and use the 2 IP addresses as the DNS servers you use to register and host domains from. The domains will not resolve at all if that box is down, but that's up to you and how you want to set things up.

As a side note, the way I use Plesk I actually don't host my DNS directly off Plesk's instance of BIND, I manually set each domain up in my normal two FreeBSD BIND DNS servers as a slave zone off of the Plesk server's BIND and point the domain registration at the two FreeBSD BIND servers.
 
tog said:
As a side note, the way I use Plesk I actually don't host my DNS directly off Plesk's instance of BIND, I manually set each domain up in my normal two FreeBSD BIND DNS servers as a slave zone off of the Plesk server's BIND and point the domain registration at the two FreeBSD BIND servers.
Click to expand...

Seems the better option, but I'm with headaches already :p

May I set up an external BIND server (my customer ordering this server currently have a cPanel reseller account and access to Plesk dedicated servers, the BIND can be in one of these points). But let me think a bit... hm... a bit more... >.< headache! ... lol

The VPSes will be reachable by their domain names - using ns1 and ns2.dedicatedserver.com as nameservers, and pointing all the DNS entries (vps1.com, vps2.com, vps3.com etc) to the dedicated server IP, ok.. but then what about their hosting customers (additional domains pointed to each VPS)?

May I just create ns1.vps1domain.com / ns2.vps2domain.com, but where point they to? If I point directly to the VPS, I will probably have an error of both pointing the same IP (remember the idea is have only 1 IP per VPS). Then.... maybe if I create A entries directly on the domain registrars, pointing ns1 and ns2.vpsX.com to the external BIND IPs, and there, I set the DNS entries too... then the VPS will handle the hosting accounts DNS, right?

e.g., hostingcustomer1.vpsX.com using nameservers ns1 and ns2.vpsX.com, that are HOSTS entries pointing to the 2 IPs of the external BIND... will the external BIND then "ask" the resolution of hostingcustomer1.vpsX.com to the VPS (vpsX.com) BIND or it will break here? :confused:

Sorry, hard to explain >.< dealing with this for a looong day..:rolleyes:
 
When you register a domain and specify the nameservers for the domain, you need those nameservers to respond authoritatively.

I do that by having the domains setup on the FreeBSD DNS servers as slave zones. They do zone transfers off the Plesk server and receive notifies from the Plesk server whenever there is a change and instantly do another zone transfer. They have the zone file stored and they are authoritative for the domain, even though it's a slave zone off of the Plesk server.

If you want to keep things super simple and keep it all managed by WHM/cPanel (remember, my setup I described requires me to manually add domains to the two FreeBSD DNS servers) just assign two IPs to the WHM/cPanel VPS that has the DNS server. Use those two IPs as your DNS servers. You can always make it "more proper" later and provide a real second DNS server, just update the IP address for "ns2.somedomain.com" to the real secondary DNS server and all the domains using "ns2.somedomain.com" will all update at the same time.

You know you can assign "ns1.somedomain.com" and "ns2.somedomain.com" to those two IPs and also assign "ns1.otherdomain.com" and "ns2.otherdomain.com" to those same two IP addresses, right?

For the purposes of making things pretty and proper when people do whois lookups for domains, your hosting/reseller client can create "ns1.myhostingcompany.com" and "ns2.myhostingcompany.com" using those same two IP addresses that are attached to the one WHM/cPanel VPS and then tell all of his clients to use ns1.myhostingcompany.com and ns2.myhostingcompany.com as their DNS servers when they register or change their domains over to him.
 
Thanks for all your patience on this. If Proxmox is installed by AlphaRed (dealing that tax... Proxmox is easier than a CentOS to install and they're asking 75$ :() I will post updates here.

Regards,
Renato
 
Not really a bad price. It takes someone's time to sit there and do that stuff!

Glad I could help.
 
Hello!

Thanks for all your help, dude :)

I was worried for nothing. This is so simple to install and use, and setting 4.2.2.3/4.2.2.2 as master dns made all run smoothly.

Only now its up and running I could understand "behind the cameras" how a VPS works. I definitelly don't need a VPS to run as dns server for the others, I could make at least the 6 VPS buying /28 (16 IPs, 13 usable, 1 for main, 12 for vpses). However, ended up buying /27 (32 ips, 29 usable, 1 for main, 28 for vpses) for just $4 more in a deal :P

Finally, I was with headaches and now I'm so happy it's running! :) This thread was so good, as I learn a lot of how Proxmox works, the way to add IPs, and everithing more! Thanks.

The only bad part is: I installed it by myselft (they gave me KVM for free for a day), but they asked $25 to burn a CD and put a drive there, as it couldn't be booted using pxeboot - someone knows a "common error", "known bug" or even a "dumb'in'chair mistake" ?

Regards,
Renato
 
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