Considering Proxmox use case...doubts.

[andyvs]

Hello all.
I´m planning to setup a new system and trying to determine the best way to implement it. The idea is to have a unique system where I can run Ubuntu's the main system, having Windows and MacOS to run certain apps that have no linux versions. It includes graphic programs in Ubuntu and MacOS. I'll have a Nvidia GPU for those. I've been reading that virtualized MacOS has many limitations, so these apps can be run in Windows if necessary.
The system will have this dedicated 3060 12gb gpu, an i5-12600 processor (the one I have has no video), 32 gigs of RAM.
The two options I consider are.
1. Proxmox as hypervisor and those 3 systems under it. Passthrough the GPU to each system as needed, I guess I cannot split the gpu and run two systems using it at the same time.
2.Ubuntu as the main system and the other two running as VMs inside KVM/quemu. Same idea about the gpu passthrough.

I have limited linux abilities and no experience with Proxmox. I'd like to hear your insights about these ideas.
Thanls,
Andy

 

[zodiac]

Virtualized Mac is certainly a bit more painful. Virtualized Windows generally works quite well, and passing through the graphics card is often a good option. Linux really depends on what you want to do. We'd have to know a little bit more about the programs you are running. You of course can run Linux in a VM and pass through the graphics card whenever you are not using it in the Windows VM.

But you might not even need that. For almost anything other than games, software rendering is often good enough. Modern CPUs can be quite fast. I am not a huge fan of recent Intel CPUs, and would probably favor something from AMD. But honestly, there are lots of good option.

And if you are fine with software rendering, then you can easily run both Windows and Linux at the same time. Give the GPU to Windows, as it seems to do better with an actual physical GPU, and let Linux do things in software. You can even run Linux in a container instead of a VM, if you prefer. That's similar to your option #2, but not quite the same.

What I wouldn't do is use PVE as a hypervisor, while also using the host as a working environment for the user. That's going to defeat a lot of the benefits of having something like Proxmox, and it is also going to frequently break. Keep all your different operating systems in virtualized environments.

 

[andyvs]

Virtualized Mac is certainly a bit more painful. Virtualized Windows generally works quite well, and passing through the graphics card is often a good option. Linux really depends on what you want to do. We'd have to know a little bit more about the programs you are running. You of course can run Linux in a VM and pass through the graphics card whenever you are not using it in the Windows VM.

But you might not even need that. For almost anything other than games, software rendering is often good enough. Modern CPUs can be quite fast. I am not a huge fan of recent Intel CPUs, and would probably favor something from AMD. But honestly, there are lots of good option.

And if you are fine with software rendering, then you can easily run both Windows and Linux at the same time. Give the GPU to Windows, as it seems to do better with an actual physical GPU, and let Linux do things in software. You can even run Linux in a container instead of a VM, if you prefer. That's similar to your option #2, but not quite the same.

What I wouldn't do is use PVE as a hypervisor, while also using the host as a working environment for the user. That's going to defeat a lot of the benefits of having something like Proxmox, and it is also going to frequently break. Keep all your different operating systems in virtualized environments.

Thanks for the answer. In Linux, I’ll use Darktable an DaVinci Resolve, which is very GPU dependent. In WIndows (guess I’ll forget MacOS for that), Photoshop, PhotoLab and Capture One, all using the GPU a lot too. But they don’t need to run at the same time (though it would be optimal) so I can use them one at a time with the GPU passed to them.
I didn’t quite understand your last paragraph. Wouldn’t I be using PVE exactly to keep all my different operating systems in virtualized environments?
I’m trying to compare this option with just running Linux as the primary OS and Windows as a VM inside it. Specially from the GPU use point of view. And then I would have one less system (PVE) consuming resources…

 

[LnxBil]

Wouldn’t I be using PVE exactly to keep all my different operating systems in virtualized environments?

PVE is not for virtualizing desktop operating systems. You will not have the same performance as a proper desktop virtualizer like VirtualBox or VMware Workstation.

I concur with @zodiac that using Linux as main OS and virtualizing Windows with e.g. VirtualBox gives the best experience.

 

[andyvs]

PVE is not for virtualizing desktop operating systems. You will not have the same performance as a proper desktop virtualizer like VirtualBox or VMware Workstation.

I concur with @zodiac that using Linux as main OS and virtualizing Windows with e.g. VirtualBox gives the best experience.

Bingo. So be it! Thanks !

 

[FoLg0re]

Hello everyone,
I'm reviving this old thread as I'm planning a new home installation with a use case similar to what @andyvs described.
My goal is to build an energy-efficient home server. The primary use will be for home lab services (running Home Assistant, Pi-hole, a Telegram bot, Grafana, etc., most likely in VMs or LXC containers).
However, I would also like to use this same machine for occasional, non-professional video editing with DaVinci Resolve.
My idea, driven by energy efficiency, is to use a mini-PC based on an AMD Ryzen 7 h255 (or similar) with the integrated Radeon 780M iGPU. I would install Proxmox VE as the bare-metal hypervisor.
My core question is about the feasibility of this setup:
Can I reliably run the 24/7 home lab services (in their own VMs/containers) and also run a separate Linux or Windows VM dedicated to DaVinci Resolve?
More importantly: Can I successfully pass the Radeon 780M iGPU to that DaVinci VM so it can be used for hardware acceleration? I've read mixed reports on iGPU passthrough, especially with these newer AMD iGPUs, and I'm not sure how stable or performant it is.
Or, given this mixed-use case, would I be better off with a different approach? For example, running a bare-metal OS (like Windows or a desktop Linux distro) for DaVinci and then running my home lab services inside something like VirtualBox? I'd strongly prefer the Proxmox "Type 1" hypervisor approach if it's viable.
I'm also open to any hardware recommendations. I'm looking at mini-PCs in the €400 budget range. I've noticed some models come with an OCuLink port, which seems like a good future-proofing option for an eGPU if the 780M isn't sufficient, but I'd like to stick to the iGPU-only to start.
Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[DerekG]

However, I would also like to use this same machine for occasional, non-professional video editing with DaVinci Resolve.
My idea, driven by energy efficiency, is to use a mini-PC based on an AMD Ryzen 7 h255 (or similar) with the integrated Radeon 780M iGPU. I would install Proxmox VE as the bare-metal hypervisor.

I have a similar setup as one of the nodes in my Proxmox home lab. Mine has an AMD Ryzen 7 PRO 8845HS w/ Radeon 780M Graphics & 96GB RAM
Currently running is a Windows 11 VM with the iGPU passthrough, really only used for Handbrake transcoding.
In addition I'm currently running a TrueNAS Scale VM, Ubuntu Server VM for 6x docker apps, a secondary PBS, and 10x LXC container apps. The system runs just fine with 50% of the CPU cores dedicated to the Windows VM.

So long as you are not trying to use the system as a daily driver (that's really painful when anything goes wrong) and are able to remote or web access into it, then you'll be fine, the later AMD APU's will never even break a sweat (except when transcoding video).

 

[FoLg0re]

Thank you so much for that detailed reply, @DerekG !!
That is incredibly helpful and encouraging. It's great to get direct confirmation that the iGPU passthrough for the 780M is working well for you on Proxmox, as that was my biggest uncertainty. Your setup is basically the "pro" version of what I'm hoping to build.
If you don't mind, I have a couple of quick follow-up questions about the practicalities of running it 24/7:
How long has this setup been running? Have you found it to be generally stable for continuous operation?
Have you had a chance to measure its power consumption at the wall? I'm very curious about what it draws when the system is "idle" (i.e., all the VMs and containers are running, but no heavy tasks like transcoding).
On the Proxmox host summary page, what does the average CPU load look like when the system is in that typical 'idle' state?
Thanks again for sharing your build; it's a fantastic real-world example!

 

[DerekG]

How long has this setup been running?

It's an Aoostar WTR MAX NAS system. Been running 4 months now, getting the GPU passthrough was a pain, but really no other problems.

Have you had a chance to measure its power consumption at the wall? I'm very curious about what it draws when the system is "idle" (i.e., all the VMs and containers are running, but no heavy tasks like transcoding).

Sorry, I can't advise on that, I have 7 nodes in my Proxmox cluster, so it's difficult to separate the power consumption for a single unit. I can say that with no transcoding and everything else running the system is using around 10% of the 16 CPU cores.

On the Proxmox host summary page, what does the average CPU load look like when the system is in that typical 'idle' state?

I responded on that before reading this sentence. The actual wall power usage can be gained from online reviews, but a lot depends on what you have installed in the system,

I hope that helps.

 

[alexskysilk]

he idea is to have a unique system where I can run Ubuntu's the main system, having Windows and MacOS to run certain apps that have no linux versions.

This CAN be done, but only if you use MACOS as your parent OS and virtualize windows and linux- you can use parallels, vmware (which is free now btw) or UTM. PVE is not meant for desktop use as you describe.