Community Pricing

[dragon2611]

Not really one for here, but as there isn't anywhere else more appropriate that I can find...

Is there any scope to review the community pricing, only because these days 2 Socket servers are pretty cheap on the second hand market, but even with 2S you might have less total cores than a modern 1S server.

Maybe a reasonable per core price?

 

[t.lamprecht]

only because these days 2 Socket servers are pretty cheap on the second hand market, but even with 2S you might have less total cores than a modern 1S server.

But one can nowadays also get a lot of cores much cheaper without using multiple CPU sockets, so it can go a bit in both directions.

Is there any scope to review the community pricing

No, currently is nothing planned (AFAIK at least ), I'm afraid. But we will factor the change of how HW is designed and available in, to make a fair pricing for everyone seeking enterprise level access to software from the community and/or wanting to support the project they use and maybe even depend on - if we come around to re-evaluate the pricing models again.

Not really one for here, but as there isn't anywhere else more appropriate that I can find...

Either office@proxmox.com or support@proxmox.com could be good places for such requests, if in doubt.
Thanks for your input.

 

[AllanM]

I was actually planning to ask the same question today.

Socket count is not a good indicator of cluster capacity anymore. My X9 generation 4-node, 8 socket homelab cluster has less total compute and RAM capacity than one single socket epyc rome server.

I do this for fun/learning at home, so that I can take what I learn to work. It would be nice to be able to afford to have the same software at home that I'll be buying for work (with company moneys). It would cost me around $750/yr to license my homelab, which would eclipse the entire cost of the hardware in 4 years. (not happening). Meanwhile, I can community license a 6-node single socket cluster I'm building at work for <$600/yr that has 5X as much compute power and RAM?

Revised licensing model suggestions:

Separate "repository access" licensing from "support" licensing. License repo access per node, and support tiers on total core-count / installed RAM basis. Offer non-commercial "homelab" and "commercial" repo access licensing options.

Repo access license:
HomeLab: ~€50/yr per node. Total cluster may not exceed 144 core, 1TB RAM, 256TB Storage, or 7 nodes. For NON-Commercial use ONLY. Opportunistic community support response.
Commercial: ~€200/yr per node. No Hardware limits. Community forum support with preferred priority.

Support Licensing: (same/similar features as current tiers... requires purchase of repo access license for each node and minimum 16 core support)
Basic: ~€10/yr per physical core or per 32GB installed memory, whichever is greater.
Standard: ~€15/yr per physical core or per 32GB installed memory, whichever is greater.
Premium: ~€25/yr per physical core or per 32GB installed memory, whichever is greater.

 

[t.lamprecht]

Separate "repository access" licensing from "support" licensing

That's already there, with the community subscription you get enterprise repo and the possibility to stand out here in the forum as supporter, but no enterprise support...

 

[AllanM]

That's already there, with the community subscription you get enterprise repo and the possibility to stand out here in the forum as supporter, but no enterprise support...

The separation I'm speaking of here, is not the community repo access vs enterprise support. If you read the entirety of my response, the separation I'm speaking to here is the licensing model for repo access vs support. You're responding to me out of context.

Currently you're licensing repo access and enterprise support, both on the basis of socket count. The licensing method is what needs to be separated. Repo access should be licensed per node, since that is how it is actually installed. Support should be licensed per core, since socket count is no longer a useful metric for cluster capacity.

I'm also requesting that there be a non-commercial-use entry point for homelab users. Trust me, I'm not the only homelab user with a cluster of multi-socket low-core-count several generation old servers in the basement who would love to have enterprise repo access for the cluster, but will not rationalize ~$1000/yr to do it.

 

[Alwin]

The licensing method is what needs to be separated.

The license is AGPLv3. Support via Customer Portal and the enterprise repository are extra services covered by different subscription levels.

I'm also requesting that there be a non-commercial-use entry point for homelab users. Trust me, I'm not the only homelab user with a cluster of multi-socket low-core-count several generation old servers in the basement who would love to have enterprise repo access for the cluster, but will not rationalize ~$1000/yr to do it.

There are different repositories. Everyone that wants to use Proxmox VE without subscription can choose to do so.
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Package_Repositories

 

[AllanM]

The license is AGPLv3. Support via Customer Portal and the enterprise repository are extra services covered by different subscription levels.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Consider the following:

Cluster A: 5 node cluster of single socket Epyc Rome servers with 64 core CPU's and 2TB RAM per server.
"Basic" support is $1350/yr for cluster A.

Cluster B: 16 node cluster of dual socket Ivy Bridge servers with 10 core E5-2690 V2's in each socket, and 512GB RAM per server
"Basic" support is $8640/yr for cluster B.

These clusters both have 320 cores. The newer, 5 node cluster actually has faster cores, and a bit more RAM. Why should the 16 node cluster with less compute capacity cost 6X as much to license?

See the problem? Socket count is not a good indicator of cluster capacity or "value" or anything that should drive your support licensing price.

---------------------------------

There are different repositories. Everyone that wants to use Proxmox VE without subscription can choose to do so.
https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Package_Repositories

I understand that. I'd like to have access to the stable enterprise repositories for my homelab, and I would happily pay a reasonable non-commercial-use price-point on a per-install licensing model to get it. The underlying software is installed on a per-node basic, not per-socket basis. The repo license model should be tied to the installation quantity.

 

[Alwin]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Well, that arguably goes in both directions.

As said above, you buy a subscription for the extra services. The software Proxmox VE is open source and free to use.
You can find the details of the subscriptions on our website.
https://www.proxmox.com/en/proxmox-ve/pricing

 

[AllanM]

Well, that arguably goes in both directions.

As said above, you buy a subscription for the extra services. The software Proxmox VE is open source and free to use.
You can find the details of the subscriptions on our website.
https://www.proxmox.com/en/proxmox-ve/pricing

Alwin,

I'm well aware it is available as free software. Running the free version now on my homelab and it is very exciting to have.

In the few months of running the "free" version of proxmox, updates have introduced regressions twice now. In the name of development, there's nothing wrong with this, it is, after-all, free software. I assume that if I were to have access to the enterprise repository, those regressions would be far less frequent?

I would like to support the project and have access to a more stable channel, but can't rationalize the $750/yr entry price for home use, (cost of the community subscription X 8 sockets) especially knowing that a larger, far more powerful cluster with fewer physical sockets could have access to the enterprise repositories for less money. The current pricing model punishes the licensing of older hardware that has lower per-socket compute density. I feel like you're trying to avoid confronting this problem.

------------

Either way, I plan to support the project through work. I'll purchase community subscriptions for our work servers here in the next few weeks as I get them provisioned and set up.

Sorry to drag this out so long. Thanks for being patient and responsive on the forums as always.

Regards
-Eric

 

[ness1602]

8 socket server is hardly home use for me.

 

[t.lamprecht]

I assume that if I were to have access to the enterprise repository, those regressions would be far less frequent?

Yes, that's the idea behind the enterprise repository, updates trickling in a bit more slowly so that more regression or other problems get caught.

Anyway, this is the community forum, if anyone has inquiries about pricing or special deals, for example as they're a NGO or the like, simply write to office@proxmox.com that's the better place to get an actual answer - thanks.

8 socket server is hardly home use for me.

In the initial post of AllanM it's written that's only in sum 8 sockets, as it's a cluster of four nodes with each having two sockets, thus the summed up "8 sockets", just FYI.

Closing this thread, it did not really derail but is a bit off topic and as said: for such inquiries please simply write to office@proxmox thanks!