Automatic backup from one PVE to another, on another hosting

[sovkutsan]

Hello everyone!



I have been working in IT for many years (18), but I encountered Proxmox for the first time recently, at a new job. Everything seems clear there, but there is one problem. (It is in the title of the topic).

I tried to solve it myself, I spent a week studying everything that is on the Internet, googled dozens of articles, found something similar, but I apparently lack a little detail in my knowledge.

I think this is an easy task, but I just lack a little understanding of something.

Sorry for my bad English.



Our company uses two different hosting providers.

A different Proxmox works on both (I will write PVE from now on)

The first PVE - 8.1.4 currently has 12 virtual machines (VM)
The second PVE - 8.2.2 их всего 4, но свободного места много - 300 ГБ. (Есть резервные копии всех 4 ВМ (.vma.zst))



There is one more nuance:

On both PVEs - the former admin created a VM for administering the network and server infrastructure for 4 VMs:

1) Windows Server 2019 - (he calls it - administrative panel, but there is only PfSense (web interface in the browser inside the VM - in WinServ2019)
2) Сам PfSense - для него есть виртуальная машина
3) dbmaster - Ubuntu 22.04.4 - (пароля для него нет)
4) apk - Ubuntu 22.04.4 - там на обоих PVE почему-то работает nginx
(но я не думаю, что это относится к моей задаче, возможно я ошибаюсь)


Sorry for such a long introduction, here’s the main question:


Мне нужно настроить автоматическое резервное копирование одной виртуальной машины из основного PVE - 8.1.4



Отсюда
(обратите внимание на IP-адрес):
(Все IP-адреса, конечно, немного изменены)

To Here, this is another hosting provider, in another part of the city.


Of course, I went to Google, watched video instructions on YouTube, read various articles, and so on for about two weeks... I realized that I myself would not be able to do this. If I ask the former admin, I will be fired. Immediately.

Finally I found some video instruction with a similar or the same problem and saw that you only need to specify to one Proxmox the shz-address of the storage in another cloud, and the first Proxmox itself sees the path to the folder with backups (on the second Proxmox) after a couple of seconds of waiting.

1) I check if a backup storage has been created at address: 5.49.200.133






2) I already started to think that everything would work out, I went into the first Proxmox 222.28.26.24 - I chose the VM I needed for backup

3) I selected the VM I needed (105) and stopped it to set up automatic backups

4) Next -> Datacenter -> Backup -> Add


5) Then I decided to make backups of the VM I needed manually, I thought I could insert the IP address
of the remote storage in the manual backup creation options

6) I go to the list of VMs: Select (105) -> Stop -> Backup -> Backup Now....


And The same problem (It only lets you choose from two storages, only on this machine)

7) Then I decided to add another storage (remote storage): Datacenter -> Storage -> Add
(Now I understand that I should have immediately added remote storage, but I only realized this now, while writing the topic)



8) Now I thought while I was pressing ZFS - everything will be fine, but.... This is not it

9) Then, completely desperate, I tried absolutely ALL possible storages, and only one was suitable - SMB/SIFS
Then, completely desperate, I tried absolutely ALL!!! possible storages, and only one worked - SMB/SIFS

Only there (SMB/SIFS) are there fields for input, IP - storage server address, and username, password...

For a very long time I couldn't figure out what to write in ID (no value was accepted) - "backup" - it worked
Then, I know the IP address for sure
login - root, password inserted
subdirectory - /mnt/pve/
But - damn domain!!! What is this anyway, I'm not setting up a DNS server!!! I entered it at random. Because I tried about 6 of them and all the domains worked... I tried all the company's domains, the hosting company's domain (The frame of the input field did not turn red)

When I clicked on the Share field - the search was spinning all the time, I probably tried 50 combinations this night, I've been making this topic for two days now...
Share - there was an empty red frame all the time

I got mad and entered the directory there myself (the remote directory for backups that I shared, as I wrote above)
As a result, I entered everything as you see in the picture, this is the last 10th picture (there is no more room in the topic)

The -> Add button turned blue and I clicked it..
create storage failed: storage ID "backup" already defined (500)

I don't know what to say, another night without sleep, I'll be fired, that's for sure, if I don't start making backups to this storage..

As far as I remember, there was a small window in the video instruction..
By the way, I reviewed them all (storage types)
NFS - It might be quite suitable, but I can't guess the ID there, and if it accepts the ID, then when I enter the server address, the remote storage does not appear, but I saw on YouTube somewhere that Shared is determined by itself, after entering other parameters.

In any case, I have no strength to even just sit, my head is not thinking, it's already 7 am.
This task has been hanging over me for 3 weeks or even a month, I googled, read, watched, tried, I am completely broken morally, all hope is on this forum.
If I don't do it, I will be fired...

Help who knows, share some information please.

I feel that I don't know only some small detail.
Google for the error 500 request - will give anything, but not in my case - ID "backup" already defined (500)
according to "already defined" there is nothing
Please someone help

 

[werter]

Добрый.
Мой вам совет НИКОГДА не открывать самбу в мир. За такое в приличных местах выгоняют с работы.
Настройте кластер на zfs-репликации и по крону реплицируйте нужные вам виртуалки, но для этого ОБА хоста должны быть на zfs.

P.s. Как вариант, отдельно развернуть truenas scale и бэкапить туда по nfs. Или развренуть на truenas виртуалку с pbs.
Лучший цикл по трунасу https://lawrence.video/truenas
Цикл моих заметок по работе с proxmox, pfsense etc - https://forum.netgate.com/topic/163435/proxmox-ceph-zfs-pfsense-и-все-все-все-часть-2

 

[sovkutsan]

Good morning, dear Mr. Werter.

It's convenient for me to answer point by point if you don't mind:

1) I haven't opened anything to the world (all IP addresses have been changed) and the domain too. You haven't read my topic carefully)
2) Where do you see samba? Do you know what samba is?
3) Your advice (fstruenas scale and backup there via NFS), thank you
but:
a) I don't know what fstruenas scale is and how to backup there via NFS, what is NFS? or especially PBS?
I'm new to Proxmox, as I wrote in my topic. You're inattentive)
b) Thank you very much for the links. I'll look at them.

I could go to Google or study your links right away..
I'll do it when I solve the problem.
But
I have a specific task - to do everything via Proxmox:
Specifically via Proxmox
And now look, I only have Proxmox and its standard tools at my disposal.
In the topic, I spent hours cutting out these pictures in Paint and cropping them. Making them beautiful.
And in the process of writing it, I found a window,
(SMB/SIMS storage type) through which you can configure automatic backup of a virtual machine (specifically this) through this specific window I


Why ID "backup" already defined (500) ???
Maybe this ID is used on both proxymoxes? - That's all I can think of....

Or is there an error in one of the fields:
Nodes (there's only - pve), Content, Domain, Subdirectory -?

How can I find out on which domain the second proxymox is? (which is the storage)
And please advise - How can I open the console from the proxymox web interface??? - so that on one of them instead of "backup" I can enter, for example, "backups"
so that the ID values differ from each other.

I tried to make a remote NFS storage, everything is the same - Proxmox does not see the share... And for some reason the password from the remote server is not requested here.


The problem is error 500 - and I need to know some little thing. It's not hard for you to tell me why it says (ID "backup" already defined (500))
Please, you definitely know the answer...
I... Need... To fix... Error 500... and that's it.
I have to do this task through the proxy windows.
At this stage.

I don't even know how to check if proxymox is installed on bare hardware. Or on some Linux, as an application. Because I don't have physical access to the servers.

Help someone please. What's wrong with backup? or with other fields?

Why ID "backup" already defined (500) ???

 

[sovkutsan]

Hello World
In the forum on proxmox does anyone know how to copy from one to another, this is provided by its capabilities, can someone help?

 

[werter]

Hello World
In the forum on proxmox does anyone know how to copy from one to another, this is provided by its capabilities, can someone help?

Добрый.
Вы хотите бэкапить вм с одного прокса на другой?
Если да, то обновите оба до самой свежий версии, соберите из них кластер и настройте репликацию вм по крону.
Но это возможно, если на обоих проксах используется zfs.

 

[krikey]

Sadly this thread smacks of a spam message, but for the sake of other users reading and in case I'm wrong, I've replied.

Backing up to another PVE server or copying to another PVE server are slightly different processes. If you wish to copy VMs/LXCs between nodes, ideally you'll need to set up a cluster https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Cluster_Manager, however if both nodes are already running LXCs or VMs setting up a cluster requires some additional planning. Ideally when creating a cluster, you would add a new clean PVE node to an existing node but it is possible to combine 2 nodes that host LXCs/VMs. Google is your friend.

If you want to backup to another server look at PBS (Proxmox Backup Server) or consider options such as secure NFS or SMB (SAMBA) mounts. DO NOT use NFS, SMB/SAMBA across the WAN without a VPN or SSH tunnel!

If backups are the most critical thing right now and you cannot figure out how to connect to your second PVE, consider getting a cheap USB drive, mount it to your PVE and use this for backups. It's likely the quickest/easiest right now.

I'd strongly recommend that you thoroughly read up on SAMBA/SMB and NFS as you mentioned that you don't know what these are after 18 years in the industry which suggests that whatever you''re going to do you may actually make it worse before it gets better. There's simply too much in your posts to unpick.

Because of this, my recommendation to you would be to create a test setup, mirroring the functionality of what you have now (not necessarily the amount of storage or CPUs/RAM) and play with this rather than with your live environments. It's very likely that you're going to break something based on what you've shared above.

You can also run Proxmox from within Proxmox, its called nesting and is a great way to create a virtualised copy of what you want to achieve. It will take more time but may save you from yourself.

 

[sovkutsan]

Good day to all.
Thank you all very much for your help, advice, and information.

I want to clarify the situation a little.

1) This is not spam, and thank you all for your advice
2) The situation is that both proxmoxes were not made by me.

They are in different parts of the city, at different hosting companies

In my company, the person who made both proxymoxes (there is also a third proxymox) did not leave me any information even about what physical server proxmox is installed on.
Installed on something?
Maybe on Debian, maybe on bare metal.
Just straight to disk...

He does not get in touch, does not answer calls, I just got someone else's network infrastructure.

I can't know what logic was in the head of the former IT guy..

I only have:
1) Links to proxmox (three PVEs), two are called Datacenter-PVE and the third Datacenter-companyname (it is needed for backups because I see a huge amount of free space on it)

2) And passwords for logins... Nothing else...

AND THE MOST IMPORTANT THING

All this is in operation every day, I can break something, I will definitely break it....

That's why I laid everything out in such detail, made pictures, I have no experience working with clusters. Can I do something on working proxmoxes...?


Yes, I have 18 years in the industry, but all 18 years in one company, where the use of virtualization was prohibited, where I was the only one trying to implement Linux at the enterprise... But it only had a mail server (Ubuntu 22)

This is a completely different area of knowledge.

I don't know what to do...
I am overwhelmed by the working system, but I am completely I don't know what kind of hardware is running whith proxmox, emails to hosters don't give any results since their job is just to allocate space, and all I need to know is that it's in the head of the person who created this system...


I'm confused and helpless, backups aren't being made, but it's gotten worse

On both proxmox that I showed, I wanted to make a backup from one to the other...
Windows Server 2019 virtual machines started shutting down...

Why did he make these virtual machines? They only have Google Chrome and that's it, to access pfsense via a browser.
And pfsense itself is on a separate virtual machine. On a different pve

A very strange person...
He made three proxmox - it's not clear what they're on.
It's also unclear why there are three of them...

Why does each pfsense need its own windows server and its own storage for backups.
But there is only one free space... On Proxmox (not pve, he rename pve in companyname)
I did all this, didn't finish it, left, I somehow need to figure out his thoughts..

Can I somehow go to the command line from Proxmox?? and see what it is installed on?? I didn't find this on the Internet.

Now, the backups have been supplemented by the problem of turning off two VMs on different Proxmoxes...
After that attempt to make a backup, after error 500, Windows Server VM started shutting down, and both virtual machines with Windows are turned off at the same time and work for no more than an hour.

I turn them on manually, press start. An hour later, they are both turned off...



I'm already in a panic, how is this even possible?
This has nothing to do with backups, I didn't touch the PFSense rules.
And even if I did, it would only be on one Windows VM.

But both turn off, there is just a Google browser.. just a link to the PFSense interface... I don't understand what makes them turn off...

And why do they work fine for an hour.. maybe 45 minutes, maybe an hour and 15 minutes... Something like that..

And no one calls from the company, everything works as it did.. VPN works... I don't understand anything. What turns them off...

Please help
I will very carefully read your links and advice now, I will read about clusters, about ZFS with Cron, I worked, but I don't know what Linux Proxmox is running on and I can't see.. I only have a link and root access.

If only I could somehow fix the virtual machines that turn off... do something... It is very difficult to work with something that you did not do yourself.

 

[sovkutsan]

Now I want to thank everyone who helped me, and give a more specific answer to each respected dear specialist..

All of you who responded have a golden heart, generous good people.
This is not flattery. This is not for you to do something for me. These are just my grateful emotions.

dear Mr. Werter
Regarding - (Configure a cluster on zfs replication and replicate the virtual machines you need via cron, but for this BOTH hosts must be on zfs.) Right now - I'm starting to analyze this material... Thank you very much, I have never heard of zfs replication before BUT I know that replication is not a backup)))

(at least I know something, at least this)) replication implies making changes to the copy at the slightest changes on the source server, this is understandable, this can be used instead of a backup. But they only have 8GB of RAM per VM, I don't know if the resources are enough, but I'm starting to study your material right now... (I couldn't deal with these issues again for a long time, because of my other job - I have a house in the village, there is a gas connection, I have to go there often)

So I'm here again, all in work, ready to learn new information. (It's night here now (Kyrgyzstan, Bishkek)) I like to work at night.

TrueNAS SCALE - I read it, learned it.
The question is - it needs to be installed separately from Proxmox? Or can it be installed in a virtual machine on the Proxmox where there is a lot of space?

ZFS - I read that it can be configured in Proxmox - do I need to configure it on both? Or on the one where the backups will be?
Great thanks, you gave me food for thought.

I am a very competent specialist and have been used to solving unsolvable problems at an airline for 18 years, but Proxmox and other file systems are new to me (I am only familiar with EXT4) Cron - in general, I am quite familiar with Linux...
I wish I knew how to enter the console from Proxmox (someone else's) and see what it is running on.
Thank you very much, my dear friend.

You also gave advice - (If so, then update both to the latest version, assemble a cluster from them and set up VM replication via Cron.
But this is possible if both proxies use zfs.)

--- Can I update Proxmox without the office noticing? Without breaking anything? For example, at night...
And again the same problem...
I did not install this Proxmox, the previous guy apparently worked with it on a physical server. To update to the latest, do I need to have access to the physical server?
Or is it possible to somehow get into the Proxmox console remotely?

Regarding - to create a cluster from proxymoxes - I am reading and watching the video right now, while I am writing these lines.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. krikey - Why does this all look like spam? A good joke... I really am used to writing a lot and in detail. To convey the essence of the issue.)

Regarding - VM/LXC - I know that VM is a virtual machine - but LXC - I read about them in Google but I only understood that this is some other type of VM? Lighter? I am not familiar with this. Could you clarify, maybe I can make a cluster from VM? Without LXC?

Thanks for the link (https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Cluster_Manager)
I am currently reading it...

But I did not quite understand why I need a cluster - if I need to backup one or maximum 5 servers, but they are all on two different proxymoxes. They probably can't be combined into a cluster...

I read your advice too: (Ideally, when creating a cluster, you would add a new clean PVE node to the existing node, but you can combine 2 nodes that host LXC/VM)

--- In which of the Poxmoxes should the new PVE be created?
--- Actually, Proxmox itself already combines several VMs into PVE, hence the logical question. Why combine already related things.
How? Create a 4th Proxmox?
Or may be create a cluster in the Proxmox where there is free space?

You remember, I don't have access to the server, I don't know)) where these Proxmoxes are physically installed

Thank you for your very competent and detailed answer. You have a kind heart.

Proxmox Backup Server - I read about it but - again))) Should I look for a physical server?
I only have a link (three links) and three root passwords. And now two self-shutting VMs which have nothing to do with backups or replication

Call the former IT guy and find out? He's silent as a grave.. He likes it when he feels on top because he's smart.

"Consider buying a cheap USB drive, mount it to PVE and use it for backup" - where to insert the drive))
I work remotely. I probably need to go to both hosting companies? Or may can do it myself remotely?

Can you tell me how to enter the console from Proxmox?

SAMBA is a file protocol for Windows and Linux to exchange files. For example, create a storage on Linux - and share it for Windows, I know that... I think I'm not mistaken?))

NFS - I looked now, but why do I need it if they suggest doing it on ZFS. I worked in a closed paramilitary organization, and we were forbidden to host any information. Even the mail server was hosted right in our office building, far from the city. Everything was very secret, top secret. That's why I'm only familiar with SAMBA, but the company had Windows Server as a storage.
I'm the only one in the IT department who's familiar with Linux...


Thanks for the advice - (test setup that reflects the functionality of what you have now (not necessarily storage or CPU/RAM) and play with it, not your real environments) - Do you mean do this at home on your computer?

I'm going to do it - but I don't even have $40 to buy an extra hard drive for this. Kyrgyzstan is a very poor country - I earn $350 at this job and my salary has been delayed for 10 days already. I have to drive a taxi, and in the evenings, when I have little strength, I try to do something remotely

As a result - no backups,
and I can't understand and fix the problem of two VMs (Windows Server 2019) - which are not related to backups (there is just Google Chrome and a link to pfsense inside it) BUT - VMs with pfsense - do not turn off. And the link to them in the Winserv2019 VM somehow turns off or something else. Hourly.
But why when I turn it on manually - they work for an hour, not 5 minutes, not 20 minutes, but about an hour. It's just some kind of miracle.
An inexplicable story.

"You can also run Proxmox from Proxmox, this is called nesting and is a great way to create a virtualized copy of what you want to achieve"

--- Do you mean inside a running Proxmox in the office?

Anyway, once again, thank you very much to everyone for the advice, a huge heartfelt sincere thank you.

Thanks to everyone who responded !!!

I will analyze everything, read all the links, try all the advice....
But I have been looking for a long time for the command line (how to enter the console in remote Proxmox) and I can't find it...

If I could get inside Linux, I could do something with Proxmox, ZFS and the cluster, and install it on the same physical server - Truenas Scale, and try all your advice.
To do this, I need to get to the server - where Proxmox is installed (I don't know - the IP address that I enter to enter Proxmox may be installed there. I can try to enter it through WinSСP)
But it's still interesting how to enter the Linux console directly from Proxmox on which Proxmox is installed, then -ifconfig and that's it - the server will be found)

And the problem of turning off two VMs - it seems to me that it is impossible to solve at all..


Have a nice day everyone, success in your work...

With great respect - Nick S.

 

[sovkutsan]

"Thank you" - to everyone, no one helped))

I'm bringing it to everyone's attention - I figured it all out myself.

18-19 years in IT have not been in vain, I have always broken any task.

Some of you wrote that I know too little and can break a working system))

I didn't break it - I redid it... I implemented PBS in my company, and on that same third proxmox, deleted unnecessary virtual machines, created a VM with Proxmox Backup Server and now both other PVEs of different! versions... connect to it without any problems.

Now I am calm, I have all 16 VMs. They are backed up whenever I want.

Without any difficulties with zfx or nfc on a regular ext4 file system.

If necessary, I will redo it from scratch when I add space to the storage...

That's how it is!!!!!