i5-12500 vs i7-12700 - homelab

[DrKuppelweiser]

Hello everyone!
I'm thinking about buying a Dell Optiplex 7000. But I'm wondering which processor to choose.
i5-12500 vs i7-12700

My uses:
1. Proxmox:
a) Virtual machines with Windows, Linux => Docker.
b) GNS3VM.

Generally speaking: virtualization.

I'm learning docker at the moment.
Probably one VM will have docker for continuous use - e.g. Pihole or AdguardHome, Wallabag and possibly something else.
Virtual machines are also used for learning/testing various Linux distributions as well as Windows/Windows server.
I also use them in learning computer networks - using GNS3.
I will probably also use this hardware as a Plex.
And what will happen after some time? I don't know

Should I spend money on an i7? Can it stay with the i5?
Or maybe buy something else?

Please help

 

[Brian Read]

I'd spend money on RAM rather than a faster processor. Only my opinion YMMV.

 

[DrKuppelweiser]

Ultimately, I plan to install 64GB or even 128GB of RAM. One (or two NVME ssd) + one (or even two) SSD disk.
But I would like this computer to be efficient for several years. Because it's not a small expense for me.

 

[leesteken]

But I would like this computer to be efficient for several years. Because it's not a small expense for me.

Please make sure you can do what you want with the system before spending a large sum. Consider IOMMU groups when you want to do PCIe passthrough. Things like useless QLC SSDs or SMR HDDs instead of enterprise drives (with PLP) might also be a concern.
Maybe consider a system that is (partially) upgradable in the future or at least repairable/replaceable (common) components. Which might rule out a (Dell) pre-built. A second-hard (server) system might be less energy efficient but much cheaper.

 

[DrKuppelweiser]

Please make sure you can do what you want with the system before spending a large sum. Consider IOMMU groups when you want to do PCIe passthrough. Things like useless QLC SSDs or SMR HDDs instead of enterprise drives (with PLP) might also be a concern.
Maybe consider a system that is (partially) upgradable in the future or at least repairable/replaceable (common) components. Which might rule out a (Dell) pre-built. A second-hard (server) system might be less energy efficient but much cheaper.

I was thinking about buying the "basic" version of Optiplex (with i5 or i7). With 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD. Then I would like to upgrade it "my way" with "good" RAM and better disks.
I need a small form factor (or micro) PC due to space constraints, so a server is probably out of the question.
I also care about the low power consumption.

 

[Ramalama]

I can honestly recommend an x570d4i-2t, there is a newer broadcom version i think.
It supports ECC, has ipmi, has 2x10gbe nics that support sr-iov, has perfect iommu groups, 8 sata ports...
I have paired it here with an 5800x. An 5600x would be great either. Just don't take anything else as X CPUs, all ryzens with igpu have less lanes or don't support ECC.

My total powerdraw, measured with an calibrated powermeter is around 80W with 3hhds and 5ssds, without GPU.

I recently rebuild my system to: arc a380 + 4x 990 pro 2tb + 8x 20tb wd hc560
And the total powerdraw increased to 120W

However it's an amd micro-itx system, but it's great.
But you'll need to build it yourself, on the positive side tho is that you can build it to be very quiet, like me.

Otherwise about iommu/vt-d, almost everything nowadays has great support for. But i would still make some research about the board you want to buy.

If you don't need alot of storage, just something to play with, i would recommend an NUC13ANHI5 or 2.
It has dual 2,5gb/s nics (with nucioaluws add-in), it has 2x thunderbolt 3 ports, where you can do 20gb/s fdx network between 3 Nucs (for ceph for example).
It has an igpu, perfect for plex/jellyfin 4k hw transcoding.
It just lacks ECC, and you are limited on Storage but everything else is amazing.
I didn't measured the power consumption there, but i guess it's somewhere in the range of 10-15w

But if you want a definitive answer, i think that an i5 is enough, since you don't need that much cpu power for an hypervisor usually. Most vms/containers do anyway nothing 99% of the time.
Like others said, ram is more important

 

[leesteken]

I need a small form factor (or micro) PC due to space constraints, so a server is probably out of the question.

Make double sure it can run the things you plan to do with Proxmox, as people are often disappointed with small consumer hardware.

I also care about the low power consumption.

Maybe threads like this can help?

 

[louie1961]

Ultimately, I plan to install 64GB or even 128GB of RAM. One (or two NVME ssd) + one (or even two) SSD disk.
But I would like this computer to be efficient for several years. Because it's not a small expense for me.

I have found with my system (E5-2690v3 {12 cores and 24 threads}/64 gb of ram) that when spinning up VM's I always have more cores available than RAM. Your system will use 16-32 GB of RAM for ZFS caching. If you are not budget sensitive, get the I7. But if you are budget sensitive, I think the I5 would be just fine. It has almost the same single thread speed as the I7 just fewer cores. IMO 6 cores and 12 threads is really more than enough for 64 GB of RAM

 

[Dunuin]

Using PCI passthrough to passthrough a GPU into the plex VM also saves tons of CPU performance, as then the GPUs accelerators can be used for transcoding/encoding/decoding instead of doing everything in software by the CPU.

 

[leesteken]

servethehome,com (and on YouTube) has a lot of review of tiny PCs and running Proxmox on (some of) them.

 

[Dunuin]

By biggest concerns with those tiny/mini/micro machines are the limited disk options and missing ECC RAM. I care about my data so I want ECC and everything at least mirrored with ZFS. So if it doesn't support ECC + at least 2x 2,5" SATA slots thats nothing for me and nearly all small machines doesn't offer this.
And yes, RAM is always whats running out here first. Got 4 cores 32GB RAM, 8 cores 64GB RAM, 16 cores 128GB RAM, 4 cores 16GB RAM and 4 cores 16GB RAM. And except for the terrible 6,5W 4 core atom CPU with 16GB RAM the missing RAM is always the limiting factor.

 

[Ramalama]

servethehome,com (and on YouTube) has a lot of review of tiny PCs and running Proxmox on (some of) them.

Serverthehome is great, but not trusted if it comes to tiny pc's.
They get paid by them. Beelink/Geekom/minis forum are literally the worst tiny pc's on the planet and none of them get bios updates or any support ever.
I had personally already tryed an beelink and an minis forum and immediately returned it.

However, just take those out, and everything else on serverthehome is actually great.

@Dunuin i have sth for you to read:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/18732/asrock-industrial-nucs-box1360pd4-review-raptor-lakep-ecc

Probably at the time we need to replace our Servers, this in-band ECC solution could get standard.
Sure it's not as great as RDIMMs, but at least something

 

[DrKuppelweiser]

I would like to thank everyone who commented on this topic. There is a really nice and helpful community here.

@Ramalama hinted at NUC13ANHI5. I was intrigued by this device.
Now I am also considering NUC13ANHI5 or NUC13ANHi7.
And of course Optiplex 7000 with i5-12500.

In my country, the version of Optiptlex 7000 with i7-12700 is too expensive for me (almost 1273$/1149Euro with 16GB RAM and 256GB nvme). So I guess I have to let go of this model.

I just don't know what is the case with the second network card (in NUC13) - maybe I will need it (in the case of optiplex there will be no problem to mount the second network card).

Now I'm confused

 

[Ramalama]

The nuc is an amazing device, just keep in mind, there is only one sata port and only one nvme port.

 

[DrKuppelweiser]

I think I can live with one nvme drive + one SSD.
But of course another problem - with the availability of NUCs in my country...

 

[DrKuppelweiser]

I'm still considering an option - building my own SFF, e.g. Fractal Design Ridge.

Is it possible to have a modern configuration with low power consumption of 30-50W maximum in idle mode? Or less?

For example:
2 NVMe SSDs,
2 SSDs,
64-128GB RAM

What kind of processor? Intel? AMD?

I don't think I need a graphics card. Unless with medium requirements?

 

[Ramalama]

I'm still considering an option - building my own SFF, e.g. Fractal Design Ridge.

Is it possible to have a modern configuration with low power consumption of 30-50W maximum in idle mode? Or less?

For example:
2 NVMe SSDs,
2 SSDs,
64-128GB RAM

What kind of processor? Intel? AMD?

I don't think I need a graphics card. Unless with medium requirements?

30-50w is hard with mini-itx.

From my experience the amd build from above with the x570d4i-2t + 5800x, consumed in the beginning with almost nothing in it ~70w

To get below 70W, you need at least a board without 10gbe and without ast2500/2600.
That will save additionally ~15W probably?

But 10gbe and ipmi/ibmc is extremely useful:-(
(At least it would be for me, especially for a server that stays somewhere in the edge without a monitor)

Im not sure what newer generations consume, but with an really optimal server, you land at 70-80w anyway.

Without 10gbe and ipmi, probably around 65W.
But to get below that is almost impossible, or at least too painful.

Means something like b450 or anything else as x570 for am4... (X570 gets hot and consumes more power)
But the downside is, that i seen only x570 boards with support for ECC.

Or if you go the am5 route, probably an b650, i don't know what an x670 consumes, but an x670e consumes for sure more power.

But for am5 you exchange ECC (no reporting, but detection and correction) with DDR5 onmemory ECC, which doesn't do reporting/detection, only some sort of integrity on the module itself. Everything on the bus itself can still have errors as far i understand.

However, am5 has overall for an sever usecase in my findings only downsides. When it comes to mainboards at least. (Basically no boards with 10gbe or ipmi)

Most important is, that you don't buy a board with 10gbe Qualcomm atheros Ethernet adapters. Those is just a horrible piece of crap.
Only broadcom/intel/mellanox are pretty nice in my experience.

To get under 65w is possible, but i wouldn't do it personally.

On the intel side of things, as much i actually love intel, i lately didn't found anything useful, especially because of missing ECC (for me that's important at least)
But intel 12/13th gen in the i5 range of things is pretty efficient on the mini-itx formfactor, more efficient as AMD (on idle only) from what ive heard.
At least the overall drain, not CPU only.
But not so efficient in mixed workloads.

However i have no clue of intel rn.
If intel would offer ECC on the consumer section, like amd with am4, i would have preferred intel boards for sure, but they don't and i can't say anything reliable in that regard.

Overall i would recommend the x570d4i-2t (no matter if broadcom nics or intel).
I love that board actually, it offers almost an perfect homelab build, everything works amazing etc...
But i would recommend that only for a selfbuild, otherwise i felt in love with NUCs already years ago.

I bought the x570d4i-2t almost at release for around 450€...
Now that board costs around 700€, hell...
For that price i cannot recommend it tbh

But however opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
Buy simply something that looks really good to you, chances are extremely high that your choice will have good iommu support and so on.

Cheers

 

[Dunuin]

My x570 + 5800X + 7x SSD + SFP+ NIC + GTX1060 consumes 91W when limited to 1,7Ghz clock. With unlimited frequency it idles at 110W with peaks t0 250-300W.

 

[Ramalama]

My x570 + 5800X + 7x SSD + SFP+ NIC + GTX1060 consumes 91W when limited to 1,7Ghz clock. With unlimited frequency it idles at 110W with peaks t0 250-300W.

Exchange your 1060 at some point with the arc a380, costs nothing, no drivers needed since kernel 6.2, support for sr-iov is available with a custom driver (i think that comes at some point to the kernel either), and absolutely amazing jellyfin/plex support.

Or wait till the next DG3 i guess intel arc series xD
Really nice card for our Plex usecase and a really crappy card for everyone else xD

Otherwise for the sacke of completeness:
NoGPU+X570+5800x+3hdd+5sata ssd+1nvme= ~84W
A380+x570+5800x+8hdds+4nvme's = ~120W

Before and after rebuild (that's x570d4i-2t with ipmi and 2x10gbe in use and no throttling)



Funny that we have almost the same configuration

 

[davemcl]

I can honestly recommend an x570d4i-2t, there is a newer broadcom version i think.
It supports ECC, has ipmi, has 2x10gbe nics that support sr-iov, has perfect iommu groups, 8 sata ports...
I have paired it here with an 5800x. An 5600x would be great either. Just don't take anything else as X CPUs, all ryzens with igpu have less lanes or don't support ECC.

My total powerdraw, measured with an calibrated powermeter is around 80W with 3hhds and 5ssds, without GPU.

I recently rebuild my system to: arc a380 + 4x 990 pro 2tb + 8x 20tb wd hc560
And the total powerdraw increased to 120W

However it's an amd micro-itx system, but it's great.
But you'll need to build it yourself, on the positive side tho is that you can build it to be very quiet, like me.

Otherwise about iommu/vt-d, almost everything nowadays has great support for. But i would still make some research about the board you want to buy.

If you don't need alot of storage, just something to play with, i would recommend an NUC13ANHI5 or 2.
It has dual 2,5gb/s nics (with nucioaluws add-in), it has 2x thunderbolt 3 ports, where you can do 20gb/s fdx network between 3 Nucs (for ceph for example).
It has an igpu, perfect for plex/jellyfin 4k hw transcoding.
It just lacks ECC, and you are limited on Storage but everything else is amazing.
I didn't measured the power consumption there, but i guess it's somewhere in the range of 10-15w

But if you want a definitive answer, i think that an i5 is enough, since you don't need that much cpu power for an hypervisor usually. Most vms/containers do anyway nothing 99% of the time.
Like others said, ram is more important

ASRock documentation and support is appallingly bad so not great if not in US.