Docker containers, new interesting project

mmenaz

Member
Jun 25, 2009
736
5
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Northern east Italy
I've discovered yesterday this very interesting project:
https://www.docker.io/
that, waiting for Proxmox maybe one day integrate it dropping OpenVZ, can be used inside a KVM VM to host internally many 'docker' boxes.
Sounds really great for deployment and to use really few resources.
I'm not found on this and just googled some doc around, but OMHO really worths having a look at!
(maybe in addition to other new compound/related projects like
http://api.yandex.com/cocaine/
http://coreos.com/
http://deis.io/overview/
https://flynn.io/
http://voxoz.com/
https://www.openshift.com/
)
 

tom

Proxmox Staff Member
Staff member
Aug 29, 2006
13,673
426
83
why should we drop OpenVZ and integrate docker?

please compare all features.

just to note, docker seems to use LXC, so the question is OpenVZ vs LXC and so far the features from OpenVZ are still better for Proxmox VE.
 
Last edited:

mmenaz

Member
Jun 25, 2009
736
5
18
Northern east Italy
In fact I said "maybe one day", but my focus was on using docker inside a kvm vm, the other part was almost a joke since everytime some new stuff comes out, Proxmox is asked to integrate it ASAP ;P
regards
 

mmenaz

Member
Jun 25, 2009
736
5
18
Northern east Italy
I'm not expert, read the doc as I'm doing, but in general containers share as much as they can with the hosting system, like kernel, filesystem, etc..
Docker seems to let you have even a thinner layer and also only "delta deploy", that would be great if you have many "almost identical" machines (like web servers) and/or you have to push in the cloud (your remote infrastructure) what you developed (improved) locally.
 

rolypoly

Member
Jun 12, 2009
36
0
6
docker is a virtualisation system which is similar to proxmox?? can host openvz and kvm?
 
Aug 6, 2014
136
2
18
no, its for making application containers to run on servers. you make your app with whatever libraries and support it needs, make a docker container and ship it off to production or servers. any server that can run docker, can run your app. docker can run on openvz. thus, proxmox can run docker apps.

https://www.docker.com/
 

pgmillon

New Member
Jul 30, 2014
1
0
1
Hi everyone,

Docker is moving quite fast these last days and I though it would be great to add support for Docker from PVE.

The key difference between OpenVZ and Docker is that in the first one is about "booting" the whole OS in a container with a shared Kernel and the last one about starting only the service you need.

I think the two concepts are complementary and would fit perfectly in PVE.

For example, it can be more appropriate to have a "full" container with OpenVZ for a DHCP + DNS server but one might want to start a Docker image starting a simple HTTP server for a PHP App.

It would be great to be able to manage a whole cluster of HTTP / MySQL in the docker way from PVE.

I think there is no such entreprise-ready administration panel as PVE in the Docker ecosystem.

What do you think ?
 

dietmar

Proxmox Staff Member
Staff member
Apr 28, 2005
16,491
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www.proxmox.com
I think the two concepts are complementary and would fit perfectly in PVE.
Yes, Docker is something completely different. I think the way to use Docker is to install it inside
a VM, using an optimized OS like CoreOS or Redhat Atomic. That way you can use all those new
orchestration tools (kybernetes, ..). Installing such thing on PVE directly makes no sense to me.
 

1nerdyguy

Member
Apr 17, 2014
118
2
18
Yes, Docker is something completely different. I think the way to use Docker is to install it inside
a VM, using an optimized OS like CoreOS or Redhat Atomic. That way you can use all those new
orchestration tools (kybernetes, ..). Installing such thing on PVE directly makes no sense to me.
This. So much this.

Installing in a VM, with the emulated hardware, makes docker truly transportable. Plus, you get all the features of the Hypervisor (HA, Live Migration,etc) that at the moment Docker doesn't have.

This is exactly what I do on 3.3 and a CoreOS KVM image, and it's working fantastic.
 

e100

Active Member
Nov 6, 2010
1,235
24
38
Columbus, Ohio
ulbuilder.wordpress.com
I agree with 1nerdguy, besides Docker and Proxmox are completely different as dietmar stated.

Docker is a virtualization system for applications.
Proxmox is a virtualization system for operating systems.

If you need specific versions of apache, nginx, postgresql, etc, to run your application, Docker helps solve that problem.
If you need to run isolated operating systems of various configuration, Proxmox with OpenVZ/KVM solves this problem.

Also, unless something changed recently that I am not aware of, LXC (what Docker is based on) is less secure than OpenVZ.
Because of that Docker is only suited to run many trusted applications on a single server (or VM) while OpenVZ/KVM is suited towards running many untrusted operating systems on a single server.

Don't try to force all problems into a particular tool, pick the tool that best solves your problem.
 

sommarnatt

New Member
Mar 20, 2014
22
0
1
Sweden
Hi 1nerdyguy - did you install CoreOS from ISO or did you successfully manage to use their kvm/qemu ISO from coreos site? In that case, how do you manage to start import it?

This. So much this.

Installing in a VM, with the emulated hardware, makes docker truly transportable. Plus, you get all the features of the Hypervisor (HA, Live Migration,etc) that at the moment Docker doesn't have.

This is exactly what I do on 3.3 and a CoreOS KVM image, and it's working fantastic.
 

1nerdyguy

Member
Apr 17, 2014
118
2
18
Hi 1nerdyguy - did you install CoreOS from ISO or did you successfully manage to use their kvm/qemu ISO from coreos site? In that case, how do you manage to start import it?
Went from ISO. Worked smoothly. Looked at the KVM/Qemu, but didn't really see a benefit when a simple ISO install + Proxmox template was all I needed.
 
Jul 3, 2014
99
0
6
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
> I think there is no such entreprise-ready administration panel as PVE in the Docker ecosystem.
I was not yet able to get it to install, but check out Panamax, by Century Labs.

> Docker is a virtualization system for applications.
> Proxmox is a virtualization system for operating systems

Well, containers are a midway point. I'd like to do docker inside Proxmox PVE, and imagine others would too (industry interest in Docker is incredibly high). I do appreciate PVE staff time is limited though.
 

1nerdyguy

Member
Apr 17, 2014
118
2
18
> I think there is no such entreprise-ready administration panel as PVE in the Docker ecosystem.
I was not yet able to get it to install, but check out Panamax, by Century Labs.

> Docker is a virtualization system for applications.
> Proxmox is a virtualization system for operating systems

Well, containers are a midway point. I'd like to do docker inside Proxmox PVE, and imagine others would too (industry interest in Docker is incredibly high). I do appreciate PVE staff time is limited though.
As stated above, there's nothing stopping you from doing Docker in PVE. Just do it the correct way:

1. Create a new VM using an OS of your choice, from a simple Ubuntu server to a more specialzied CoreOS
2. Install Docker on this vm
3. Use docker on this vm.

This has many benefits. The primary one being that since you are emulating all hardware, you can recreate this exact same hardware setup on ANY virt provider, and you know for sure that your containers are truly portable. Doing it directly though the PVE interface, while it would be easier, isn't the answer we're looking for at this time.
 

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