Details about the new pve-no-subscripton repository

[martin]

There are some doubts about the stability of the new pve-no-subscripton repository so I will explain the current release policy, the development- and build process of Proxmox VE in detail:

• we are committed to 100 % open source: the whole development progress and all source code is always visible on https://git.proxmox.com
• the communication between developers (internal and external) is happening on our mailing list (pve-devel)
• all feedback from our users, from http://forum.proxmox.com or via bug reports via https://bugzilla.proxmox.com is taken into consideration and is moving step by step into the project
• all new code is tested from our core developers and our community developers on their test servers and their test labs
• all new deb packages go to the Proxmox VE test lab for testing and validation. There is no deb package in our repositories without going through these tests.
• after all these this, we upload these debs to the pve-no-subscription repo (history shows that packages are quite stable at this stage)

In short, pve-no-subscription is not a beta or unstable release repository. It is quite stable and well tested software and it is not the replacement of the old beta repo (pvetest). It is a replacement for the pve repository.

And what is the difference to pve-enterprise? Why should you use pve-enterprise for production servers?

The Proxmox VE Enterprise repository is an additional and NEW offering for our commercial subscribers, introduced with 3.1. It contains packages which are from proven quality as they are already in the pve-no-subscription repository, so these packages are additionally tested on thousands of servers worldwide.

• We move packages from pve-no-subscription to pve-enterprise after some time if everything works as expected.
• So basically the new pve-enterprise repository is expected to have less bugs than the pve-no-subscription repository

To summarize, starting with 3.1 we provide additional value by improving the quality. There are NO plans to lower the quality of any repository, instead the opposite is happening.

FAQ regarding pve-no-subscription

I use the pve-no-subscription repo, can I submit bug reports?
Yes, of course. Just provide all details about the bug.

I need help in configuration and setup, where can I get help?
Use the well-known community support channels. Forum and mailing list.

__________________
Best regards,

Martin Maurer
Proxmox VE project leader

 

[shsm]

Are you going to provide access to sources of debian packages (deb-src) for enterprise users? It's an important issue for me. Sometimes i need make small changes in stable package and rebuild it. GIT source have no tags and that task more complicated than package rebuilding.

 

[RRJ]

Thank you, Martin.
I can sleep well again. You saved my health.
This should be added to wiki.
Thanks again.

 

[badji]

There are some doubts about the stability of the new pve-no-subscripton repository so I will explain the current release policy, the development- and build process of Proxmox VE in detail:

• we are committed to 100 % open source: the whole development progress and all source code is always visible on https://git.proxmox.com
• the communication between developers (internal and external) is happening on our mailing list (pve-devel)
• all feedback from our users, from http://forum.proxmox.com or via bug reports via https://bugzilla.proxmox.com is taken into consideration and is moving step by step into the project
• all new code is tested from our core developers and our community developers on their test servers and their test labs
• all new deb packages go to the Proxmox VE test lab for testing and validation. There is no deb package in our repositories without going through these tests.
• after all these this, we upload these debs to the pve-no-subscription repo (history shows that packages are quite stable at this stage)

In short, pve-no-subscription is not a beta or unstable release repository. It is quite stable and well tested software and it is not the replacement of the old beta repo (pvetest). It is a replacement for the pve repository.

And what is the difference to pve-enterprise? Why should you use pve-enterprise for production servers?

The Proxmox VE Enterprise repository is an additional and NEW offering for our commercial subscribers, introduced with 3.1. It contains packages which are from proven quality as they are already in the pve-no-subscription repository, so these packages are additionally tested on thousands of servers worldwide.

• We move packages from pve-no-subscription to pve-enterprise after some time if everything works as expected.
• So basically the new pve-enterprise repository is expected to have less bugs than the pve-no-subscription repository

To summarize, starting with 3.1 we provide additional value by improving the quality. There are NO plans to lower the quality of any repository, instead the opposite is happening.

FAQ regarding pve-no-subscription

I use the pve-no-subscription repo, can I submit bug reports?
Yes, of course. Just provide all details about the bug.

I need help in configuration and setup, where can I get help?
Use the well-known community support channels. Forum and mailing list.

__________________
Best regards,

Martin Maurer
Proxmox VE project leader

Finally an explanation!!

I asked you for a clarification before the release of version 3.1, I saw that it was an honest way of presenting things. it was too fishy.
the only answer I got from you was:
you will see later ....
We have been able to avoid any confusion and uproar.

It was the same problem MANDRIVA community and OepnEuacalyptus community.

thank's

 

[dietmar]

Are you going to provide access to sources of debian packages (deb-src) for enterprise users?

We will add a file with the git version to all packages, for example:

# cat /usr/share/doc/pve-manager/SOURCE
git clone git://git.proxmox.com/git/pve-manager.git
git checkout dc0e9b0e326ea806c3e2cf94337ec40e7e11e09e

 

[shsm]

We will add a file with the git version to all packages, for example:# cat /usr/share/doc/pve-manager/SOURCE git clone git://git.proxmox.com/git/pve-manager.gitgit checkout dc0e9b0e326ea806c3e2cf94337ec40e7e11e09e

Sounds good. When you planning to add that SOURCE file?

 

[FinnTux]

We will add a file with the git version to all packages, for example:

# cat /usr/share/doc/pve-manager/SOURCE
git clone git://git.proxmox.com/git/pve-manager.git
git checkout dc0e9b0e326ea806c3e2cf94337ec40e7e11e09e

Excellent. This and the clarification about the new repos were good news. Thanks for that.

 

[nopenopenope]

I don't see how this changes what has been discussed in the previous thread. The message about the lack of a subscription is always shown when logging in the first time. That's a load of bs. Based on what has been written on these two threads, it looks like Proxmox VE is yet another ESXi and XenServer. They both ask for subscriptions and they also show nag screens like the dialog box of Proxmox VE.

I'm discussing with a few persons about starting a project as an alternative to Proxmox VE which is 100% OPEN SOURCE, not have git commit hashes hidden in the packages of the subscription packages.

 

[FinnTux]

They both ask for subscriptions and they also show nag screens like the dialog box of Proxmox VE.

I was under impression that the nag screen is gone if you disable the enterprise repo and use only no-enterprise one. Isn't this the case?

 

[tom]

I don't see how this changes what has been discussed in the previous thread. The message about the lack of a subscription is always shown when logging in the first time. That's a load of bs. Based on what has been written on these two threads, it looks like Proxmox VE is yet another ESXi and XenServer. They both ask for subscriptions and they also show nag screens like the dialog box of Proxmox VE.

I'm discussing with a few persons about starting a project as an alternative to Proxmox VE which is 100% OPEN SOURCE, not have git commit hashes hidden in the packages of the subscription packages.

Proxmox VE code is 100 % open source. If you write the opposite, its just wrong.

A good start is reading the aGPLv3 terms - see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.html - most of our code is published under this license (but also other license are used, more info and details is included in the packages)

 

[nopenopenope]

Proxmox VE code is 100 % open source. If you write the opposite, its just wrong.

A good start is reading the aGPLv3 terms - see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.html - most of our code is published under this license (but also other license are used, more info and details is included in the packages)

You're displaying a nag screen by default for everyone if they don't have a subscription. Your interpretation of "open source" is weird. You're just using everybody to test the packages which are supposed to go into the "stable" packages repository which can only be accessed by the people who have a subscription. Honestly, I'd donate money, but I'll never pay you for a subscription to get binaries. How is your project any different from XenServer?
They're doing the exact same thing.

 

[frederic.ve]

You're displaying a nag screen by default for everyone if they don't have a subscription. Your interpretation of "open source" is weird.

It still is open source. If you want to remove that notification, just remove it from the source code. You're free to do so.

 

[dietmar]

Sounds good. When you planning to add that SOURCE file?

This will be included in any new package we upload.

 

[tom]

You're displaying a nag screen by default for everyone if they don't have a subscription.

Yes. we promote our commercial services and Proxmox makes money. Thankfully enough that they can pay my salary every month so I can sit here and answers your posts. Almost every company is trying to make money by selling products and services. Without money, Proxmox VE would not exist.

Your interpretation of "open source" is weird.

I don´t think so. For me it seems you do not understand what open source means, but it looks like you never read the license terms of AGPLv3 or you do not understand it.

You're just using everybody to test the packages which are supposed to go into the "stable" packages repository which can only be accessed by the people who have a subscription.

Read again the release policy (top post). It seems you just want to prohibit us to offer extra services for our paying customers, which is strange for me.

Honestly, I'd donate money,

we are asking for donations on http://pve.proxmox.com since around 5 years, did you ever donated there?

but I'll never pay you for a subscription to get binaries. How is your project any different from XenServer?
They're doing the exact same thing.

You do not have to pay for binaries if you do not want. You still have the pve-no-subscription repo. So you are making a lot of noise without a real reason.

I am not an expert for XenServer but as far as I remember, they started with a closed source product with a limited free edition. Now it seems that they changed to a full open source license.

 

[nopenopenope]

Yes. we promote our commercial services and Proxmox makes money. Thankfully enough that they can pay my salary every month so I can sit here and answers your posts. Almost every company is trying to make money by selling products and services. Without money, Proxmox VE would not exist.



I don´t think so. For me it seems you do not understand what open source means, but it looks like you never read the license terms of AGPLv3 or you do not understand it.



Read again the release policy (top post). It seems you just want to prohibit us to offer extra services for our paying customers, which is strange for me.



we are asking for donations on http://pve.proxmox.com since around 5 years, did you ever donated there?



You do not have to pay for binaries if you do not want. You still have the pve-no-subscription repo. So you are making a lot of noise without a real reason.

I am not an expert for XenServer but as far as I remember, they started with a closed source product with a limited free edition. Now it seems that they changed to a full open source license.

I understand that you need to make money out of this, but some people do expect to be able to use an open source piece of software without nag screens.

we are asking for donations on http://pve.proxmox.com since around 5 years, did you ever donated there?

I've just installed Proxmox VE on the first box and I was planning on switching from ESXi. I've found out about it recently, not 3 years and not 5 years ago. I have donated money to a bunch of open source projects and I've also donated thousands of hours of work to open source projects.
Why would I donate any money to Proxmox VE if I keep seeing a nag screen? No, sir, thank you very much, but I'm not going to donate just to see a nag screen every single time I log into the web interface. While I can afford to donate 100 euros once every 12 months, I can't afford to pay about 300-400 euros per year out of my own pocket to get stable KVM virtualization for a bunch of Linux VMs used to compile open source software.

edit: Would you pay 400 euros / year just to get Proxmox VE on 4 older servers with dual socket dual core CPUs?

 

[kobuki]

@OP: Thank you for the clarification. I'm sure that if we get it yesterday together with the release announcement, a lot of confusion cound have been avoided. All in all, the worst that happens to non-paying users is the nag screen. I personally can live with it - and naturally where budget permits, we're going to go for the enterprise repo.

 

[frederic.ve]

I have donated money to a bunch of open source projects and I've also donated thousands of hours of work to open source projects. Why would I donate any money to Proxmox VE if I keep seeing a nag screen?

If you had donated thousands of hours of work to open source projects, you would know how to remove your "nag screen" from proxmox and you would not be making that amount of noise here.My 2 cents.Personally, I don't mind the move proxmox made. Something needs to pay the bills. If the money isn't there, neither is the project.Thanks for the great work guys!

 

[nopenopenope]

If you had donated thousands of hours of work to open source projects, you would know how to remove your "nag screen" from proxmox and you would not be making that amount of noise here.My 2 cents.Personally, I don't mind the move proxmox made. Something needs to pay the bills. If the money isn't there, neither is the project.Thanks for the great work guys!

We've moved past a milestone - "cracking" open source software

....

 

[kgatan]

Complain and edit all you want but don't post BS like that on their own forum. Its really disrespectful towards the developers in my opinion.

 

[tmikaeld]

I don't think a nag-screen will increase the amount of subscribers, only get people pissed off. Just look at winzip...The message is quite clear though "This is commercial software . "